What is your opinion on the current state of the shreks?
I fell compared to zookas and the fact, that only pgrens can get them, they underpeform. You have to sacrifice one p gren squat, which becomes utterly useless vs. everything else and get only a medicore units which cant even 2 shot flak hts t70 or stuarts. Thus they get kited to deadt while not being a real threat on the battlefield.
Rear echelons with double zookas and 5 man are more sticky and deal more damage, without suffering a heavy mp bleed.
In my opinion, shreks need a slight range buff, so they can be acutally useful in fighting at least the early alli vehicles, while not being to strong.
Panzerschrecks - state of balance
5 Jan 2020, 11:06 AM
#1
5 Jan 2020, 11:15 AM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Boy, I can't wait until both, ritter and thekingsown find this thread.
That being said, infantry AT is supplemental AT, it isn't going to do well on its own against anything bigger then light and that goes for all factions.
That being said, infantry AT is supplemental AT, it isn't going to do well on its own against anything bigger then light and that goes for all factions.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Jan 2020, 11:20 AM
#3
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Ostheer Pioneers should be able to buy a single panzershrek with 60 muni, able to get it with a sweeper but not with a flamer.
5 Jan 2020, 11:38 AM
#4
Posts: 203
Apparently having 50% more damage and 40% more pen means they do less damage and perform worse XD what?
PzShreck is one of the more cancerous things in this game, just because a single squad of Pgrens can wipe out light vehicles in one salvo, and in team games you can just blob then and wipe out mediums all day, since they pretty much ignore armor of medium tanks.
BTW. 2 PGren models have plenty of AI DPS, especially for and AT squad with this much damage/pen.
Nerf their damage and armor pen (so they actually have a chance to bounce off mediums) and we can talk about spreading them out or whatever.
PzShreck is one of the more cancerous things in this game, just because a single squad of Pgrens can wipe out light vehicles in one salvo, and in team games you can just blob then and wipe out mediums all day, since they pretty much ignore armor of medium tanks.
BTW. 2 PGren models have plenty of AI DPS, especially for and AT squad with this much damage/pen.
Nerf their damage and armor pen (so they actually have a chance to bounce off mediums) and we can talk about spreading them out or whatever.
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
5 Jan 2020, 12:21 PM
#5
Posts: 1563
Ostheer Pioneers should be able to buy a single panzershrek with 60 muni, able to get it with a sweeper but not with a flamer.
Won't it then make it too easy for ost. Like not having sacrifice that pg is kind of great.
5 Jan 2020, 12:57 PM
#6
Posts: 1392
Panzerschreck is a great weapon, but very inconsistent combat performance because many missing shots and long aim-time (about last one I am not sure, but I think it is the aiming ^^)
e.g. Guards perform better sometimes better xD
e.g. Guards perform better sometimes better xD
5 Jan 2020, 13:13 PM
#7
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
That being said, infantry AT is supplemental AT, it isn't going to do well on its own against anything bigger then light and that goes for all factions.
Then you have never seen tripple Elite Zook sprinting Rangers.
5 Jan 2020, 13:31 PM
#8
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I think they are fine. Not overperforming and not underperforming. I don't see why you would want to 2-shot lights with them since 2 out of 3 units that get shreks get them as a pair, which would mean that you can instawipe all lights if both hit which would be super OP. Unless you mean that you want 2x2 hits to take out lights, which they already do so I am not sure what the complaint is there?
5 Jan 2020, 13:34 PM
#9
Posts: 268
I think they are fine. Not overperforming and not underperforming. I don't see why you would want to 2-shot lights with them since 2 out of 3 units that get shreks get them as a pair, which would mean that you can instawipe all lights if both hit which would be super OP. Unless you mean that you want 2x2 hits to take out lights, which they already do so I am not sure what the complaint is there?
I dont think a more damage is needed, but a range buff. Since long reload and high mp bleed is a thing for pgrens - and since they are kind of elite troops - giving them a slight range buff would make them more suitable vs. lv´s. Right now, they basically get kited to death in 1v1 and 2v2.
5 Jan 2020, 13:51 PM
#10
Posts: 3260
Rear echelons with double zookas and 5 man are more sticky and deal more damage, without suffering a heavy mp bleed.
Panzershrecks deal 120 damage each.
RET Bazookas deal 80 damage each and have about 50 lower penetration.
5 Jan 2020, 14:02 PM
#11
Posts: 268
Panzershrecks deal 120 damage each.
RET Bazookas deal 80 damage each and have about 50 lower penetration.
i meant over time, since they are longer in combat
5 Jan 2020, 14:12 PM
#12
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Then you have never seen tripple Elite Zook sprinting Rangers.
It isn't exactly a stock option now, is it?
i meant over time, since they are longer in combat
And they also need more time to kill tanks.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Jan 2020, 14:13 PM
#13
Posts: 129
Then you have never seen tripple Elite Zook sprinting Rangers.
Yeah if only Pgrens had sprint abilities doctrinally, and nondoctrinally, oh wait. The difference between zook rangers and upgraded pgren squads is that pgren squads are still somewhat combat effective vs Infantry. 2 stgs + mini nuke> 2 rifles + pineapple. They have comparable bleed and comparable cost otherwise.
5 Jan 2020, 14:34 PM
#14
Posts: 177
The only change that is needed at the moment is to give PGrens a Hold Fire button, so the Shrecks aren't wasted firing at infantry, IMHO.
Dual Shreck 5-man PFusils, on the other hand... look at where that's gotten us...
Dual Shreck 5-man PFusils, on the other hand... look at where that's gotten us...
5 Jan 2020, 15:00 PM
#15
Posts: 1392
The only change that is needed at the moment is to give PGrens a Hold Fire button, so the Shrecks aren't wasted firing at infantry, IMHO.
Dual Shreck 5-man PFusils, on the other hand... look at where that's gotten us...
I think Schrecks should work like PaK43, ignoring inf and only shoot at vehicles without order. So they become also better in garrisons.
5 Jan 2020, 15:27 PM
#16
Posts: 5279
i meant over time, since they are longer in combat
25% more men doesn't make up for the 33% more damage per shot and heap more pen against generally more armoured targets.
Zooks have more paper potential but less real game reliability. piats are sorta in between and AT rifles are DOT more or less.
#stalinwept
5 Jan 2020, 16:00 PM
#17
Posts: 1096
Personally I think Pzgrens are stifling team games atm, so far from needing a buff of any sort.
5 Jan 2020, 17:01 PM
#18
Posts: 3260
i meant over time, since they are longer in combat
Panzershrecks take 7.75 seconds to reload. Bazookas take 5.75.
Panzershrecks take two shots to kill light tanks, bazookas take three. That's 7.75 seconds for shrecks versus 10.75 for bazookas.
Against larger targets the gap closes a little, but the shrecks still win out. They deal +50% damage for +34% reload time, so the bazookas never catch up.
The only vehicles against which bazookas have an advantage are 320 HP halftracks, and even then the advantage is nuanced as the bazookas have to hit with all four rockets whereas the Panzershrecks only need to hit three.
5 Jan 2020, 21:48 PM
#19
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedThe only change that is needed at the moment is to give PGrens a Hold Fire button, so the Shrecks aren't wasted firing at infantry, IMHO.
Dual Shreck 5-man PFusils, on the other hand... look at where that's gotten us...
I've asked for that option for all AT squads to have the option to hold fire 2 years ago, but Relic obviously doesn't care. Same with a manual reload button on all HMGs so they can fire a full burst. Relic doesn't care.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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5 Jan 2020, 22:08 PM
#20
Posts: 1248
Bruh. my biggest fear with pgren shrecks is them getting one shotted by something. The spacing will always scare me as long as they're 4 man.
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