The Great OKW commander balancing

I have made a very simple point:
C.Panhter performance vs Super heavies is not as cost efficient as the C.Tigers although it has similar cost and CP thus it is UP.

Vs mediums it probably up also compared to the Tiger.

The same probably applies to Croc.

The Ostheer panther probably also is UP compared to Tiger for the same reason.

Now I am not sure what is the point you are tying to make but describing the Panther as "butchering" mediums seem to me as misleading. 2 Stug or 3 Pumas probably "butcher" medium allot faster than a Panther. If Panther has an advantage over this vehicles it is that it can get the kill with loses....

Panther is actually not a cost efficient counter to mediums due to its cost....

The massive Cmd Panther issue in 1v1 rn is how hard it is to reach its potential, since it takes absurd amounts of time to gather enough XP for its auras to kick in, which are extremely useful. Hence why I suggested improving Special Ops by making the Cmd Panther a bit better vs Infantry, about 1.5 times its current anti inf DPS, which should help it not only be a bit more useful in general but also accumulate XP faster for its veterancy to kick in and provide benefits. I really think a faster vetting Cmd Panther could make Spec Ops useful in 1v1 again.

You are either best in the world in not understanding written text or you know damn well that's not what I said and are making a pitiful attempt at spinning things around to match your personal narrative YET AGAIN.

Actually the spinning comes only from you.

You quote me saying:
"I have made a very simple point:
C.Panhter performance vs Super heavies is not as cost efficient as the C.Tigers although it has similar cost and CP thus it is UP."

Now you:
either agree with point where you can simply say I agree
either disagree and you can say why
or you just want start you own theory about Command tanks at which point you absolutely no reason to quote me

Or you can just spin and troll as usual...

No pls stop trolling and move on.

You're right on this one, its KV-2 and 8.

Thank you

Point still stands.

And what point might that be that the OKW unit named "Command Tiger" is not actually a "Command" unit?

I am sorry but if that the point you want to make you will have to bring it up to the MOD team that designed and named the unit "Command Tiger"...

You're smarter then an average rock even if equally dense, so there is at least 3% chance you still got the point.

You obviously live in farm with lots of cattle, else there is no way that you have access to that amount of bullshit to fill your 14.000 post in this forum alone.

The massive Cmd Panther issue in 1v1 rn is how hard it is to reach its potential, since it takes absurd amounts of time to gather enough XP for its auras to kick in, which are extremely useful. Hence why I suggested improving Special Ops by making the Cmd Panther a bit better vs Infantry, about 1.5 times its current anti inf DPS, which should help it not only be a bit more useful in general but also accumulate XP faster for its veterancy to kick in and provide benefits. I really think a faster vetting Cmd Panther could make Spec Ops useful in 1v1 again.

I am not sure that would enough or a good design:
1) "Always on" auras are bound to be difficult to balance and imo they should be replaced by a small always one buff and active buff with limited duration.

2) C.Panther is simply not cost efficient enough compared to C.Tiger

3) Giving the emphasis on the "aura" is problematic to begin with for unit since these unit cost too much and have a high pop making it difficult to afford an army to benefit from the aura...

I am not sure that would enough or a good design:
1) "Always on" are bound to be difficult to balance and imo they should be replaced by a small always one buff and active buff with limited duration.

2) C.Panther is simply not cost efficient enough compared to C.Tiger

3) Giving the emphasis on the "aura" is problematic to begin with for unit since these unit cost too much and have a high pop making it difficult to afford an army to benefit from the aura...

It is not a design, it’s a change allowing the design to work better,

1) Small timed buffs don’t work, as has been gracefully demonstrated by the Command Tiger. Passive short range buffs reward positioning and preservation.
2) Having better vetting will allow it to be more cost efficient and beneficial as a command unit,
3) The aura is the entire point of it being a command unit.

It is not a design, it’s a change allowing the design to work better,

1) Small timed buffs don’t work, as has been gracefully demonstrated by the Command Tiger. Passive short range buffs reward positioning and preservation.
2) Having better vetting will allow it to be more cost efficient and beneficial as a command unit,
3) The aura is the entire point of it being a command unit.

The problem with C.Tiger's aura is not that it is a "Small timed buff" but that it cripples the DPS of the C. Tiger itself, which is probably the main source of damage in one's army composition. In other words it does not actually improve the damage army dishes out...

Imo the aura of the Panther should be separate into:
Always on that could be the vet 1 bonuses
vet 1 active ability timed aura the vet providing the vet 2 bonuses
vet 2 a bonus in the aura it self like lower cost or longer duration or sorter CD
The rest of the vet bonuses can remain but affect the "ability"

or/and one could have the aura first affect infatry and then vehicles...

That would it allot easier to balance the aura and thus the unit.

I’m just giving real game situations where the Panther doesn’t butcher lower cost tanks like Lago stated but outright loses to them.

Fair enough

Like I said I think the jackson matchup should be separated from the rest. It seems to have the best chance of soloing a panther

The problem with C.Tiger's aura is not that it is a "Small timed buff" but that it cripples the DPS of the C. Tiger itself, which is probably the main source of damage in one's army composition. In other words it does not actually improve the damage army dishes out...

Imo the aura of the Panther should be separate into:
Always on that could be the vet 1 bonuses
vet 1 active ability timed aura the vet providing the vet 2 bonuses
vet 2 a bonus in the aura it self like lower cost or longer duration or sorter CD
The rest of the vet bonuses can remain but affect the "ability"

That would it allot easier to balance the aura and thus the unit.

Noone is going to bother revamping the Cmd Panther’s aura, therefore I propose a small veterancy gain buff via extra inf damage to help make the unit relevant again. Much easier to implement and balance.

Using the c. Panther is a 1v1 scenario is extremely misleading. While it does fare better than your run of the mill panther due to Mark target the cpanthers main attribute is how it improves other units. It's one of 2 remaining aura units and undeniably the most powerful (thank in part to its strong base unit and not at all diminished by time as it improves with vet) it's base ability of improving line of sight gives it, and everything around it an edge vs heavy armour by letting you know if it's safe to engage and also getting the first shot off and it only gets better from there.

A change I would see to command panther however would be that it's mark target be changed to the superiorly designed usf mark target that increases target size and decreases armour of the target unit as it is better mechanical and complements OKW's lower pen AT units for combined arms much better. This is better designed as it helps improve your RNG in 2 of the most RNG mechanics of the game instead of doubling up on getting the right dice rolls. And before the whiners come in yes, I think the Soviet version should be changed to this as well (also makes more sense considering the included plane)

Its extremely easy manouver, which I can pull pretty much all the time I need and I'm hardly a top player with superior micro and awareness.

Basically, only people who can't pull it are the ones unaware of it or too lazy to actually do it.
However its also pretty surprising how a lot of top players just forego using it, but that might be a result of "micro tax" on them as they micro more units at the time then average players, still, average players should reliably pull it off.

Fair enough, I also do it pretty much all the time, even on USF vehicles, so I don't get what the big deal is.

Best way to fix the Cmd Panther, and all Panthers in general, is to lower vet requirements. Having to vet up just by landing shots on enemy armour is very difficult, whereas P4s vet like it’s nothing.

How does Panther do against:

"T34/85 with mark target"
The Panther wins. Mark Target's +35% damage reduces the T-34/85's hits to kill the Panther to 5. The Panther then wins on its armour advantage.

"Firefly with tulips"
The Panther wins. Even if the Firefly lands both tulips, it's not enough to overcome the Firefly's glacial reload and the Panther's health advantage. The Firefly's strengths are range and burst damage, not slugging matches where it's taking fire.

"Jackson on the move"
The Panther wins. The Jackson has a large target size, which limits the effect of the accuracy disparity. The Panther's ability to take six hits to the Jackson's four wins out.

"Also Easy 8 on the move"
The Panther wins. If the E8 does not retreat, the Panther can simply hit Stop to avoid moving accuracy penalties. If the E8 does retreat, the Panther has the range advantage and can fire without being fired on.