Lower the fire-rate a little but, but give it a low-angle fire-modus reducing range, but increase the acc. Arty-commander only uses standard-mode.
Also it arrives too late.
With my Ostheer overwork I would make it a T2 unit, require T4 tech. (beside, holw tech would be replaced by an other design ^^)
Incendiary barrage for panzerwer
3 Jan 2020, 15:33 PM
#41
Posts: 1392
3 Jan 2020, 18:21 PM
#42
Posts: 1484
To be honest this new idea doesn't seem bad. I would think it will be very similar to incendiary barrage of the Soviets plus wasn't flame damaged nerf years ago?
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3 Jan 2020, 19:23 PM
#43
Posts: 1563
Cost, hp and armour, speed and mobility, min max range, weapon or rocket damage and aoe profile, how many per salvo, fire time cooldown time, spread or scatter, vet bonusses.
Then you look at what type of army they face.
All these are meaningless stats. How are supposed to quantify versatility with these data. The answer is your not. If you want to go of in a pointless tangent be my guest. The Fact is the katty is more user friendly and versatile and the stuka simply is more powerful despite both coming sooner(less tech cost associated with them) and on top of that they don't come from tech structures which are kind of a gamble in 1v1 specially.
3 Jan 2020, 22:32 PM
#44
Posts: 1289
All these are meaningless stats. How are supposed to quantify versatility with these data. The answer is your not. If you want to go of in a pointless tangent be my guest. The Fact is the katty is more user friendly and versatile and the stuka simply is more powerful despite both coming sooner(less tech cost associated with them) and on top of that they don't come from tech structures which are kind of a gamble in 1v1 specially.
Ok denei stats all you want it still does not make a great argument for you. Versitilty you qaintify with type of barrage vet ability and bonusses and aoe profile.
As for stats being usseles, "more user friendly" is far more usseles then comparing stats wise. That has even more opinion written all over it.
For claiming facts and then stating data is irrelevant to come to your fact is mind bogeling. You seem to have a different defenition of what a fact is.
I,ll leave it at that.
4 Jan 2020, 04:39 AM
#45
Posts: 1563
Ok denei stats all you want it still does not make a great argument for you. Versitilty you qaintify with type of barrage vet ability and bonusses and aoe profile.
As for stats being usseles, "more user friendly" is far more usseles then comparing stats wise. That has even more opinion written all over it.
For claiming facts and then stating data is irrelevant to come to your fact is mind bogeling. You seem to have a different defenition of what a fact is.
I,ll leave it at that.
Don't act all high and mighty. I said the data you want is irrelevant. And listen what points I made require more practical data (real world). Like,
%chance of Rocket strike dodged
avg hit area wrt range curve
avg unit cluster area
avg reaction time of attack recipient
%chance to hit target with barrage while no doge
%chance to hit target with barrage while doge
avg damage hit area likely to receive given x number of units
%chance to hit clustered target once they have moved from are
and a fair bit more.
All you are talking about is stuff in theory. but as the saying goes
"it's all good in theory, not in practice"
All AOE profile will do tell what the dice rolls and numbers are like. It won't tell you stuff in game. And no one has the time to gather stats like these.
4 Jan 2020, 11:12 AM
#46
Posts: 1289
Don't act all high and mighty. I said the data you want is irrelevant. And listen what points I made require more practical data (real world). Like,
%chance of Rocket strike dodged
avg hit area wrt range curve
avg unit cluster area
avg reaction time of attack recipient
%chance to hit target with barrage while no doge
%chance to hit target with barrage while doge
avg damage hit area likely to receive given x number of units
%chance to hit clustered target once they have moved from are
and a fair bit more.
All you are talking about is stuff in theory. but as the saying goes
"it's all good in theory, not in practice"
All AOE profile will do tell what the dice rolls and numbers are like. It won't tell you stuff in game. And no one has the time to gather stats like these.
Then how the hell can you claim x is better the y because its more user friendly. Thats als up to preference per player.
Speaking about acting high and mighty, your being a hypocrite on that.
4 Jan 2020, 11:20 AM
#47
Posts: 1563
Then how the hell can you claim x is better the y because its more user friendly. Thats als up to preference per player.
Speaking about acting high and mighty, your being a hypocrite on that.
The same way cavemen without thermometers could say fire is hot even though they couldn't measure the raw data of fire and come to a comprehensive conclusion that fire is in fact HOT.
4 Jan 2020, 11:33 AM
#48
Posts: 1392
For me the change seems like so many other semi changes of the last years, doesn't touching real broken mechanism.
Panzerwerfer arrives too late, its performance is incosistant in comparison to other units and only Artillerieoffizier makes it potential.
a. move it to T2, requirement of tech T4.
b. reduce the fire-rate (less clowny) but inprove the armor pen + add a low angle ability for better acc. but less range.
c. Arty-off. ability only uses standard shots, doesn't make Werfer op.
That e.g. allows to react on stupid 120mm spam or pack-howitzers.
Incendiary grenade or Brandflasche could be a ability for Osttruppen xD
Panzerwerfer arrives too late, its performance is incosistant in comparison to other units and only Artillerieoffizier makes it potential.
a. move it to T2, requirement of tech T4.
b. reduce the fire-rate (less clowny) but inprove the armor pen + add a low angle ability for better acc. but less range.
c. Arty-off. ability only uses standard shots, doesn't make Werfer op.
That e.g. allows to react on stupid 120mm spam or pack-howitzers.
Incendiary grenade or Brandflasche could be a ability for Osttruppen xD
4 Jan 2020, 11:51 AM
#49
Posts: 1289
The same way cavemen without thermometers could say fire is hot even though they couldn't measure the raw data of fire and come to a comprehensive conclusion that fire is in fact HOT.
The fact that fire is hot is indeed an undisputible fact. User preference is not.
Using a fire to cook food. It can be to big to hot or to close to the food according to each indevidual caveman.
Now you wanne tell me the things that make the katty more user friendly according to you? Or you wanna keep this bickering going?
4 Jan 2020, 11:52 AM
#50
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
If you two don't stop your flame war I'm gonna put an end to this bullshit.
4 Jan 2020, 11:54 AM
#51
Posts: 1289
If you two don't stop your flame war I'm gonna put an end to this bullshit.
Agreed.
4 Jan 2020, 12:22 PM
#52
Posts: 1563
For me the change seems like so many other semi changes of the last years, doesn't touching real broken mechanism.
Panzerwerfer arrives too late, its performance is incosistant in comparison to other units and only Artillerieoffizier makes it potential.
a. move it to T2, requirement of tech T4.
b. reduce the fire-rate (less clowny) but inprove the armor pen + add a low angle ability for better acc. but less range.
c. Arty-off. ability only uses standard shots, doesn't make Werfer op.
That e.g. allows to react on stupid 120mm spam or pack-howitzers.
Incendiary grenade or Brandflasche could be a ability for Osttruppen xD
What about form hq requiring t4. But you have a good point it's inconsistency is the real issue. The katty might be as well inconsistent but due to what i guess it's path is calculated it actually does better. And stuka is just bs levels of accuracy.
4 Jan 2020, 12:23 PM
#53
Posts: 1563
If you two don't stop your flame war I'm gonna put an end to this bullshit.
Where am i flaming. he's just taking this clearly dead thread way too srsly. And i'm just enjoying the ride.
4 Jan 2020, 14:48 PM
#55
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Where am i flaming. he's just taking this clearly dead thread way too srsly. And i'm just enjoying the ride.
You two are clearly spamming this thread in an inappropriate manner. Last chance to ditch this.
6 Jan 2020, 15:30 PM
#56
Posts: 318
Werfer is fine, it's probably better than Katy if it's used with care and skill to get it very close to the front, with its rotating rocket pack and high mobility that is not such a hard thing to do, it just requires you to use your brain a bit more than leaving it in the rear like what most people do with the Katy. Werfer just punishes lazy play more than the Katy, with the Katy being easier to get rewards from when you leave it far behind the front.
Werfer is already absolute cancer in 2v2 when you are having to go heavy AT gun.
Werfer is already absolute cancer in 2v2 when you are having to go heavy AT gun.
6 Jan 2020, 20:11 PM
#57
Posts: 1563
Werfer is fine, it's probably better than Katy if it's used with care and skill to get it very close to the front, with its rotating rocket pack and high mobility that is not such a hard thing to do, it just requires you to use your brain a bit more than leaving it in the rear like what most people do with the Katy. Werfer just punishes lazy play more than the Katy, with the Katy being easier to get rewards from when you leave it far behind the front.
Werfer is already absolute cancer in 2v2 when you are having to go heavy AT gun.
ehat part of requires more skill, only works when you enemy is braindead and less rewarding is fine???
9 Jan 2020, 02:48 AM
#58
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Werfer is already absolute cancer in 2v2 when you are having to go heavy AT gun.
And why would you need to go heavy on the AT guns as allies have far superior 200+ pen, 60 range TDs? It's Ost that needs to go heavy on the AT guns since they're the only faction without a 60 range TD.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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10 Jan 2020, 05:19 AM
#59
Posts: 789
But USF has to go TD and skip ai tanks because their AT gun has 55 range and terrible penetration
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
10 Jan 2020, 06:12 AM
#60
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
But USF has to go TD and skip ai tanks because their AT gun has 55 range and terrible penetration
USF? OKW?
The USF AT gun has 60 range, the 55 one is the OKW.
The penetration is poor (struggling against anything higher than non skirt PIV) but it has faster RoF and access to Sabot rounds which increase pen by 50% which should put it on par or higher than normal AT guns while retaining a faster RoF.
It also doesn't cost the same as other AT guns.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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