Bayeux and Novgorod Outskirts ruin 1v1

These two maps are below anything I've seen since Caen and need to be removed.
I haven't seen somebody on stream not putting a veto to Bayeux so far, I'm pretty sure this is by far the worst map in the pool.

Yeah, I pretty much have 1 of these two maps veto'd at all times, but we got an extra veto with Crossroads Winter because WhiteFlash is a beast.

What do you guys not like about these two maps?

Early map veto stats show:

 15 Crossroads                      :  2272
 14 Langreskaya                     :  2197
 13 Faymonville Approach            :  2186
 12 Kholodny Ferma (Summer)         :  2124
 11 Crossing in the Woods           :  2033
 10 Bayeux                          :  1950
  9 Vilshanka                       :  1938
  8 Lost Glider                     :  1905
  7 2p_novgorodoutskirts            :  1890
  6 Rechnaya Pereprava              :  1819
  5 Nexus                           :  1794
  4 Angoville                       :  1748
  3 Arnhem Checkpoint               :  1712
  2 Ladoga Karelia                  :  1387

feymonville got significantly worse . Novgorod is ok

Map X is bad because I don't like it.

Please fix map X.

Early map veto stats show:

I don't know how much this means to be honest. Road to Kharkov is the most played 2v2 map (according to last map stats by Siphon X) and everyone semi-decent at COH2 knows it sucks and is a horrible design all around. Should there be more maps added that are popular at low elo levels because they are so small and narrow that you don't have to move your units and can just spam MGs and camp on one point all game?

Bayeux's quite big, which may not be to some people's tastes, but Novgorod Outskirts has literally nothing unusual about it.

I'm slowly starting to subscribe to Tric's theory that whether or not people like a map usually depends on if they won or lost their first game on it.

I won my first game on Stalingrad and the funny market garden one from years ago. Pepperidge farm remembers.

SiphonX has granted us new stats

 16 Crossroads                      :  3126
 15 Langreskaya                     :  2982
 14 Faymonville Approach            :  2918
 13 Kholodny Ferma (Summer)         :  2828
 12 Crossing in the Woods           :  2772
 11 Vilshanka                       :  2627
 10 Lost Glider                     :  2624
  9 Nexus                           :  2530
  8 Rechnaya Pereprava              :  2395
  7 Arnhem Checkpoint               :  2342
  6 Angoville                       :  2334
  5 Bayeux                          :  2254
  4 Novgorod Outskirts              :  2235
  3 Ladoga Karelia                  :  2080

NOTE: Crossroads Winter removed for clarity

I am still impressed by how even the plays are across the 1v1 maps.

In my mind Lost Glider is easily the worst map in 1v1 (NOTE: I dont play much 1v1). Followed closely by Arnhem Checkpoint. Because both are huge and building heavy. Any map that is getting less plays than Lost Glider could be removed

But as I have stated 100 times, if we do not identify what is bad about these maps, they will just get replaced by similar maps with the same issues.

Don’t forget maps get vetoed purely because of atmosphere settings as well. Which as far as I’ve been told/seen is why maps like ladoga are at the bottom. Remember when noggano had to drop from SMC cause there were so many snow/rain maps and he played on a toaster?

wow... don't you think "ruin 1v1" is a tad bit too melodramaric? i mean i agree that both maps could probably be improved a bit, but other than personal taste i see nothing going against them being included in the map pool.
they're honestly not my favorites either, but i welcome the variety these new maps bring to the game and am glad and grateful to those who dedicate a lot of their free time to create maps for coh2. opinions on quality and balance may differ of course, especially at high level play - but that's what vetoes are for; don't like it - don't play it. but instead of demanding maps to be removed you could maybe add some constructive criticism on how to improve them. for what it's worth, i've read in another thread that spanky, the creator of bayeux, is very open to suggestions...

Map X is bad because I don't like it.

Please fix map X.

You are wrong!
There we go:

Map X is bad because I lost on it

Please remove map X

Don’t forget maps get vetoed purely because of atmosphere settings as well. Which as far as I’ve been told/seen is why maps like ladoga are at the bottom. Remember when noggano had to drop from SMC cause there were so many snow/rain maps and he played on a toaster?

Yes, the two lowest played maps are Winter maps. Both maps seem to have a pretty standard layout. Novgorod ended up being similar to KFS in layout when final changes were made. Which is the 4th most popular map and has nearly similar plays as the most popular map.

Crossroads Winter, however, has nearly the same winter settings as Novgorod, but seems to be getting good plays? A little too early to tell.

SiphonXs stats say Crossroads Winter has only been in rotation about 1/2 the time so it would be approximately 2600 plays which puts it around the seventh most played map just above Nexus. Although the community across the board was excited for its addition to automatch.

The first batch of stats that came out had Bayeux being played very frequently. But now they say it is not being played? That seems a little suspicious. Hopefully there was not some weird server glitch. I watch the spectate board all day long and I see that Bayeux is still being played. But since all of the 1v1 maps are being played fairly even, eye-balling the boards is not a good indicator of being played or not.

With that said, I see Novgorod get most plays from about level 14 and down. I have not seen any streamers really complain about it. And many twitch chats sound like they are unsure if they like it or not. Which would say its fundamentally okay, but the Winter aspect could be killing it.

After some time in automatch, I think we could bring the bases in a little to make it smaller and review the cutoffs. As Luvnest has stated about bigger maps, they become less about fighting and more about capping. Which is just annoying as hell. But we have not received any real reasons to make any changes yet.

Now is the time to speak up!!! I cant emphasize this enough!!!

Novgorod imo suffers from blob in your retreat path syndrome where the retreat paths are very accessible to blobs so you can get your ass kicked easily if you’re not careful. The middle is also pretty uninspiring. Whoever controls the church controls middle. I don’t like this map, but at least it’s better than the abhorrent ones like Lost Glider and Arnhem.

Bayeaux I swear to god, I’ve played 30 1v1s since the map patch and I haven’t played there once. I like the openness from games vs AI so I’m optimistic.

As for Ladoga Karelia, it’s one of the best 1v1 maps imo and a staple on how open and non-laney maps need to be. Super fun to play in and you cannot camp there. Shame winter is handled so poorly by the game engine.

Community complaints are very hard to sort thru in general.

This is the most important image ever produced about map plays:


Port of Hamburg gets a lot of hate from high level players. But it is also the most played map by high level players??? So is it good? Or is it bad?

If i were to remove any maps, it would be arnhem, angoville, and lost gilder.

It is far to early for bayeux or novogrod to be removed as they havent even been given time for them to be improved on.

I am not a fan of Bayeux, and I can explain later on why, as it might be helpful for spanky. Novogrod, seems pretty standard, but in truth i haven't played it yet, so i will withhold talking about it as I dont really have any experience on it.

Novgorod imo suffers from blob in your retreat path syndrome where the retreat paths are very accessible to blobs so you can get your ass kicked easily if you’re not careful. The middle is also pretty uninspiring. Whoever controls the church controls middle.

I blame AE, he said it needed something like a church in the middle

But I also felt the church helped slow the blobs from moving left to right in the middle. Since the two main cutoffs are in the middle of the map, a player could just move his blob to center, control the whole map, and wipe retreating squads. The damaged church is weak and has no windows facing North/South so it is very easy to attack.

But in order to get the far munition point you need to take the central cutoff, which can make you vulnerable to retreat wipes. Since the retreat path may be right thru the middle of the map.

Valid point made. Thanks for the comments. If changes are made we can look into moving some sight blockers to force better retreats or possibly change the cutoff structure.

I blame AE, he said it needed something like a church in the middle

But I also felt the church helped slow the blobs from moving left to right in the middle. Since the two main cutoffs are in the middle of the map, a player could just move his blob to center, control the whole map, and wipe retreating squads. The damaged church is weak and has no windows facing North/South so it is very easy to attack.

But in order to get the far munition point you need to take the central cutoff, which can make you vulnerable to retreat wipes. Since the retreat path may be right thru the middle of the map.

Valid point made. Thanks for the comments. If changes are made we can look into moving some sight blockers to force better retreats or possibly change the cutoff structure.

It’s not that the church itself is bad, just that it’s a church and a tank wreck and that’s basically just the middle of the map and there’s trees around the open area. Very uninspiring. I think if you got a bit more creative wih it and made something interesting it would be a huge lift to map playability.

As for the blobs, it’s the retreat paths that don’t help due to map geometry. Only thing you could potentially do is shift base entrances and some buildings to push retreat paths towards the map edges.

Like these two maps are fine, you're all weaklings that blame your lack of adjustment and inability to adapt to new environments on the hard work of map makers.

The 1v1 map pool right now is literally the best it's ever been since 2006, CoH1 had 5 maps for the most part and in its end state this included Wrecked Train and Baux Lowlands... CoH2 launched with Moscow Outskirts as a 1v1 map...

Not every map has to be a tournament contender some are meant to be fun tactical conundrums that keep you thinking.

These two maps are below anything I've seen since Caen and need to be removed.