How I feel about paid commanders.

Guys it could be much much worse. Just look at what became out of Call of Duty and Battlefield.

The maps in CoH 2 are still free so are certain commanders and the ones you have to pay for, are far from being op in my opinion.

Coh 2 cost more than Battlefield .... just look all commanders ... and if i want skins rofl ---'''

And look the collector edition of bastard ... 0 FREE, just 4 skins for 40 euros, i want just fuck their ass of this relic, sega people seriously who make this shit.

Guys it could be much much worse. Just look at what became out of Call of Duty and Battlefield.

Oh, really? Call of Duty and Battlefield titles have $50-$70 DLC spanned over the period until the next installment is about to release. CoH2 is only four months post release and just the tank skins cost about $50. Just imagine how that will compare after adding in faceplates, ToW, and the current+pending commanders.

Memories can be short, Dave,judging from this post of yours. I have underlined your rightful(IMO) criticism about Roos for this purpose: vCoH was dying. It had little support from Relic,bcs people paid once for the game,and then :full stop. No dlc to maintain income. And yet, people like you, it seems, expected a fully supported game in vCoH for a one-off payment only. That was more than absurd,and so it proved. After the Roo debacle, vCoH was eventually patched (very late) in or about May 2011(?) under the volunteer efforts of primarily, Kolaris and Mora Failes, but that was as much by luck as by judgment. The 2.602 patch only materialised bcs of the abandonment of COHO, and the requirement to keep the vCoH community intact,if possible, until a new game could be released.

The plain fact is that reliance upon a single payment for a game and then expecting it to last (fully maintained), like Buzz Lightyear to infinity and beyond, is unrealistic.

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Mark my words:the original team are apparently responsible for transferring your fave of all time onto Steam...it is not yet done,as you very well know.

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Now for some comparisons in RL: if I go to a provincial restaurant in my country, dinner for 2 will cost me far in excess of the Stalingrad TOW and add-ons; so will 3 pints of beer in London; or the cost of 2 to see a film at the cinema.

Stalingrad and its add-ons will (for me) be slightly more than the cost of 20 cigarettes.

Do you see the point?




Get real, FFS

You're missing vital information. You probably should do some research before you write such an expanded post of misinformation and telling me to "get real".

VCoH or Vanilla COH = Wehr vs US - That was what COH was like out of the box. The British and PE were then added through subsequent expansion "packs" - Tales of Valor/Opposing Fronts which cost something like 30 bucks a piece, might have been more at release. Most people ended up paying over 100 bucks for the entire CoH experience.

Again, with the release of OF and ToV half of the initial COH community left because they disagreed with the way this new group of developers were taking the game. It was not a very good experience. There was, I'd say, one good community-agreed upon state of balance for the final version of COH and that was the patch prior to the final one. I may be wrong there.

It's a simple conclusion. The people who bought this game are getting screwed by lackluster service and features that are now elementary by industry standards. What Relic has done to CE purchasers is pretty much a shame and will guarantee loss of future profits on this particular franchise. Further, what they are planning to implement with this DLC model is a general slap in the face of the dedicated players of their game. Whether you think it costs you 20 cigarettes or a night out on the town to purchase this dlc is irrelevant. Using your analogy, if I forced you to buy 20 cigarettes in order to get laid on your night out, you'd probably be pretty pissed.

if I forced you to buy 20 cigarettes in order to get laid on your night out, you'd probably be pretty pissed.

There's an extra I'm willing to shell out for.

Oh, really? Call of Duty and Battlefield titles have $50-$70 DLC spanned over the period until the next installment is about to release. CoH2 is only four months post release and just the tank skins cost about $50. Just imagine how that will compare after adding in faceplates, ToW, and the current+pending commanders.

Well I expect CoH 2 to last another ~6 years as its predecessor did unlike BF and CoH who bring out a new game nearly every year.

But if we take all DLC into consideration you are right, it's more expensive. I just left singleplayer content and comsetics out of my equation because that's not important for competitive play.
That leaves us with 4 commanders which actually brought new content that you had to pay for.

While I agree that overall DLC prices for this game are too high and that there should be some sort of season pass or premium update, I still think that CoH 2 is by far not as bad as the majority of other titles out there.

But if we take all DLC into consideration you are right, it's more expensive. I just left singleplayer content and comsetics out of my equation because that's not important for competitive play.
That leaves us with 4 commanders which actually brought new content that you had to pay for.

theres also nothing forcing you to buy all the commanders. i have the 4 new commanders and i never use any of them. i always use the free ones. just pick and choose which ones you buy and its really not that expensive. plus, youre still able to win and enjoy the game without the new content.

Well I expect CoH 2 to last another ~6 years as its predecessor did unlike BF and CoH who bring out a new game nearly every year.

It's already been hinted at by a Relic dev somewhere in these forums that we can expect a CoH3 in a much shorter timeframe than that of CoH1 -> CoH2. The CoD/BF/Fifa/etc model may not suit the videogame snobs who bang on about quality over quantity (I'd be lying if I thought I didn't fit at least a little bit into this category) but it's a damn effective business model when you can just recycle and reuse a bunch of previously made assets, allowing you to pump any excess money into advertising and therefore secure regular high profits.

And personally, I think it's already patently clear that CoH2 will not last 6 years. For all those that say it's just early days yet; it's a fair point. However, although balance can be tweaked, design post-release is pretty much fixed, and that design is coming from the team behind OF and ToV. Just putting it out there, Q. Duffy was the lead designer for the Brit faction; no comment (and nothing meant against the man himself), because that's great if you loved the Brits, but isn't so hot if you weren't a fan.

at the very least they need to start bundling this dlc better and discounting the bundles

And personally, I think it's already patently clear that CoH2 will not last 6 years. For all those that say it's just early days yet; it's a fair point. However, although balance can be tweaked, design post-release is pretty much fixed, and that design is coming from the team behind OF and ToV. Just putting it out there, Q. Duffy was the lead designer for the Brit faction; no comment (and nothing meant against the man himself), because that's great if you loved the Brits, but isn't so hot if you weren't a fan.

Interesting reading. I always fealt that COH2 was designed with a verry different mindset compared to vCOH. Do you know how much of the original vCOH team that is still left and where the rest went?

I think the idea of comparing this with Call of Duty or Battlefield is a bit off the mark. We're really looking at games as a service more than a title that gets a new full priced game every year or two. We're not going to drop a $70 CoH 3 next year. We intend to support CoH 2 for the long term, even more effectively than we did with the original.

We know that some people don't like DLC, and sometimes that's a fair opinion to have. But what items like the Commanders allow us to do is offer a greater level of support to the base game than we'd have been able to in the past. Free content like new maps, the World Builder and features like Steam Chat lobbies are all built off of support from the DLC. The Turning Point Update is a huge free update to the game, and there's content in there that would not exist if it weren't for paid DLC.

CoH2 was a full game on release, nothing was held back from it. It had as robust a single player campaign as the first, a multiplayer mode like the first and an entire new play experience with Theater of War which lets players play pre-set AI battles and co-op.

We have a long roadmap for the game, and we hope you guys will stick around. There's no need to buy all of the DLC, we don't expect everyone to. Just like we designed the original expansion packs for CoH to be useable if you didn't have the base game and for players who didn't buy the expansion packs to be able to play against those that did, we're dedicated to making sure everyone has a great experience no matter what version of the game or what additional content they may have.

We hope you like the game, we've got really great plans for it.

I think the idea of comparing this with Call of Duty or Battlefield is a bit off the mark. We're really looking at games as a service more than a title that gets a new full priced game every year or two. We're not going to drop a $70 CoH 3 next year. We intend to support CoH 2 for the long term, even more effectively than we did with the original.

But with the current DLC pricing and the rate that they are being pumped out, you would spend less money on the annual title. CoH2 and the content that is available right now not even 5 months after release is slightly more expensive than two years worth of CoD and all of its DLC.

There's no need to buy all of the DLC, we don't expect everyone to.

You don't have to buy skins and all the commanders, but that doesn't make the price ok. I could opt not to fill up at a gas station that charged $6 a gallon but it would still reflect pretty badly on them either way. A game like War Thunder can get away with selling the premium planes pretty expensive because it is F2P and players want to support the devs. But charging $6 for a camo pattern for light/med/heavy tanks is like asking for charity and this a full priced game we are talking about. Plus many of these commanders are a requirement if you want to be a member of the OP unit of the month club, and even after they are balanced they still offer an advantage through more diversity. All DLC released between now and Jun 2014 should total no more than $60 unless this is some attempt to reinvent the wheel.

I think the idea of comparing this with Call of Duty or Battlefield is a bit off the mark. We're really looking at games as a service more than a title that gets a new full priced game every year or two. We're not going to drop a $70 CoH 3 next year. We intend to support CoH 2 for the long term, even more effectively than we did with the original.

We know that some people don't like DLC, and sometimes that's a fair opinion to have. But what items like the Commanders allow us to do is offer a greater level of support to the base game than we'd have been able to in the past. Free content like new maps, the World Builder and features like Steam Chat lobbies are all built off of support from the DLC. The Turning Point Update is a huge free update to the game, and there's content in there that would not exist if it weren't for paid DLC.

CoH2 was a full game on release, nothing was held back from it. It had as robust a single player campaign as the first, a multiplayer mode like the first and an entire new play experience with Theater of War which lets players play pre-set AI battles and co-op.

We have a long roadmap for the game, and we hope you guys will stick around. There's no need to buy all of the DLC, we don't expect everyone to. Just like we designed the original expansion packs for CoH to be useable if you didn't have the base game and for players who didn't buy the expansion packs to be able to play against those that did, we're dedicated to making sure everyone has a great experience no matter what version of the game or what additional content they may have.

We hope you like the game, we've got really great plans for it.

Well,that's apropos.

I think the idea of comparing this with Call of Duty or Battlefield is a bit off the mark. We're really looking at games as a service more than a title that gets a new full priced game every year or two. We're not going to drop a $70 CoH 3 next year. We intend to support CoH 2 for the long term, even more effectively than we did with the original.

We know that some people don't like DLC, and sometimes that's a fair opinion to have. But what items like the Commanders allow us to do is offer a greater level of support to the base game than we'd have been able to in the past. Free content like new maps, the World Builder and features like Steam Chat lobbies are all built off of support from the DLC. The Turning Point Update is a huge free update to the game, and there's content in there that would not exist if it weren't for paid DLC.

CoH2 was a full game on release, nothing was held back from it. It had as robust a single player campaign as the first, a multiplayer mode like the first and an entire new play experience with Theater of War which lets players play pre-set AI battles and co-op.

We have a long roadmap for the game, and we hope you guys will stick around. There's no need to buy all of the DLC, we don't expect everyone to. Just like we designed the original expansion packs for CoH to be useable if you didn't have the base game and for players who didn't buy the expansion packs to be able to play against those that did, we're dedicated to making sure everyone has a great experience no matter what version of the game or what additional content they may have.

We hope you like the game, we've got really great plans for it.

This is what I assumed the business model was from the start. My question is why didn't you just stick with the free-to-play model that was started with COHO. F2P games have shown they could could be well profitable and people would be more forgiving of the constant DLC. The loss of initial sales could have been easily covered by the influx of players that would buy more content. Many people just aren't willing to put down an initial 60 bucks just to get into what's essentially a F2P game and it ends up ruining the franchise name making it look like you are being greedy.

We know that some people don't like DLC, and sometimes that's a fair opinion to have. But what items like the Commanders allow us to do is offer a greater level of support to the base game than we'd have been able to in the past. Free content like new maps, the World Builder and features like Steam Chat lobbies are all built off of support from the DLC. The Turning Point Update is a huge free update to the game, and there's content in there that would not exist if it weren't for paid DLC.

My only real concern with this approach is how will this affect the tournament/competitive scene. If we have new content coming at us on a monthly basis and a small development team to support game balance, what is to stop an Esports caliber game from devolving into a modish spamfest?

To the other posters, I feel like I got a $60 game, and I'm glad... I hope, they are making it better. DLC markets are sort of common nowadays, I just hope Relic does not abuse it.

If I want the DLC I will buy it, if I don't want it I won't buy it.

Its that simple, I don't get why people moan about it so much...

The introduction of unbalanced units which downright breaks the game for everyone, the non-buyers too, is what truly grinds my gears.

Breaking and then unbreaking the game, again and again, is my one true fear. The AssGrens, Osttruppen and FHQ was an embarrassment and a let-down IMHO.

The introduction of unbalanced units which downright breaks the game for everyone, the non-buyers too, is what truly grinds my gears.

Breaking and then unbreaking the game, again and again, is my one true fear. The AssGrens, Osttruppen and FHQ was an embarrassment and a let-down IMHO.

I get what your saying here but usually by the next patch they have ironed out the in-balances. I mean I have no problem vs ostruppen and ass grens. I have to admit the FHQ is a pain in the ass to come up against but I usually end up choosing the mortar HT commander and blast them out of hiding

I enjoy Coh2. It's a fun RTS and I much prefer it over say Starcraft 2. But, by having paid commanders (which you can't get any other way), you are excluding content, splitting the player base. We are playing the same game yet the other dude has access to a lot more tactical decisions than me.

Pretty sure I paid full price for the game, yet you want me to keep dropping money in it to 'stay competitive'? What is wrong with skins and silly hats (and other cosmetic upgrades that have no impact on gameplay)?

If this was a F2P, then no one would care. But again, at full retail price, I'd expect not to have to keep upgrading and dumping money just to have the same possibilities as the other guy (not that I have any plans on buying DLC's at the current price point, if ever). How about separating the find game queue in DLC and non DLC people? Let us whiny people play the vanilla game at a mediocre level and be content with it. It would at least be fair games.

I think you guys have dug yourself a deep hole by choosing to monetize the DLC Commanders (unique units and tactical decisions, how is that now P2W?). How will you even attract new players if they know they have to pay for the full game and a bunch of commanders just to play the game properly?

TL;DR
I don't want to play with people using the DLC commanders. Paying for content is fine, paying for content that give me unique units and abilities is P2W. Also a lot of ranting.

Yep, that's pretty much why I'm mostly okay with DLC commanders. However, Relic really has to stay vigilant with balance patches for these if they're to keep the trust.

And any future commanders have to be better tested and balanced than the first bunch they released, because then they'll be blowing any trust built with the positive balance patches prior.

I also think that they need to help acclimatize people to these new abilities by distributing them to new free commanders that largely have reused abilities except one. Which is why I was happy to see the 45mm AT Gun put into another free commander.

Then, perhaps the paid DLC commanders get special visuals on their version of the abilities, along with their special configuration of commander abilities.