ir Stg for stormtrooper instead of G43's

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 10:27 AMWAAAGH2000

Agree，but maybe 60 ammo only for 1xIRstg，2x will very OP when Stormtrooper ambush....

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 13:24 PMLago

This question actually has a pretty simple answer.

Stormtroopers don't get G43s. Not by default, anyway.

The G43s come from the Jaeger Light Infantry ability, which gives Grens and PGrens the ability to upgrade with G43 rifles. They gave Stormtroopers the ability to equip them too because why not, but it's like putting BARs on a Ranger squad.

The intention is that you upgrade MP40s instead.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 14:43 PMZeroZeroNi

That's great but don't take this the wrong way but that kinda sounds like an excuse. Cus from my perspective lore can go to hell if we can make the gameplay better. And furthermore where's my p3, mardars, weird flakveirling tanks thinghy, FLAK 36/88 and there were a lot of nazi's at that time m8 so where are my 5 man squads.

I'm sorry it's a very poor excuse to not change anything. Gameplay come first.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 14:51 PMZeroZeroNi

it's an ability flag m8, The ability itself doesn't specify that storms should get g43's but the g43's upgrade checks weather this flag is true or not. If abilities would strictly give upgrades then veteran squad leaders pg's would also get 5 men (which they don't).
That's a poor understanding on your part on how the doctrinal upgrade mechanic works.
All i'm asking is to change the g43 upgrade ability to IR stg upgrade ability.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 18:04 PMLago

You're correct in that it's possible to make the G43 upgrade give IR StGs to Stormtroopers. But it'd be a weird unintuitive exception to how that ability works.

Stormtroopers were redesigned into CQC ambush units because, as you pointed out, Ostheer already have a midrange assault unit: Panzergrenadiers. Stormtroopers are meant to equip the free MP40s.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 17:12 PMSeductiveCardbordBox

If all you care about is gameplay, alter the G43 stats so that it matches the current IR STG profile.

If you care about the aesthetic, Ost caps at 1943, so they don't get IR STGs.



In no situation is giving out IR STGs to Ost actually a good idea. It's not an excuse, it is expliciy how Ost have been designed as per the game's developers.

If you want stormtrooper buffs you can argue for them, but it'll be the G43 that gets them.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 18:04 PMLago

You're correct in that it's possible to make the G43 upgrade give IR StGs to Stormtroopers. But it'd be a weird unintuitive exception to how that ability works.

Stormtroopers were redesigned into CQC ambush units because, as you pointed out, Ostheer already have a midrange assault unit: Panzergrenadiers.

Stormtroopers are meant to equip the free MP40s. You can give them G43s if you also have that ability in your commander pick, but it's not playing into their strengths.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 18:07 PMVipper

But that design is still problematic, 4 men expensive CQC is problematic due to DPS drop off when losing entities. Moving most DPS to 2 weapon would probably work better (similar to Vamp). I am not actually suggesting that they should get Vamp ST44.

Unit is designed more about fight power less about utility.

For instance they could easily provide extra LOS and have less DPS but able to upgrade to 5 men.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 18:27 PMZeroZeroNi

Yes,Then what's the point on the devs end to buff em. They strictly buffed em 1/2 patches ago to encourage jager upgrade to be utilized more on pg's and storms.
The devs want players to use the jager upgrade on storms so your point is kinda invalid.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 18:49 PMLago

They buffed the Panzergrenadier G43s because they were a 60 muni downgrade and they wanted them to be a viable option.

If midrange firepower for Stormtroopers was a priority, why did they take away their StG option?

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 19:08 PMZeroZeroNi

Mmmm... Panzergren g43's were only 25 munis before patch dude. Both storms and pg's use same g43's. The Storm ones were 60 munis. So for Pg's it's a nerf, It was definitely a buff for stormtroops. Cus the new and improved g43's are no where close to being 2.5x stronger.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2019, 19:24 PMLago

PGren G43s were 60 MU two patches ago.

The New Commanders patch bumped PGren G43s down to 25 because they were a downgrade in most situations. The most recent patch buffed them and cranked their price back up.

You're correct, that buff made the Stormtrooper G43s better than they were before. You're still probably better off putting them on PGrens though.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2019, 03:00 AMZeroZeroNi

Well that's the point of my post. G43's aren't a good upgrade for stromtroopers, so let's replace them with IR STG's instead.

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2019, 04:18 AMMazianni

Why? Stormtroopers already get far more upgrade options than most other units in the game. Why do they deserve access to cover-ignoring unicorn guns when they already have elite camo and access to MP40s with close range dps second, probably, only to shock troops?

The whole idea is to use these guys as ambush troops and CQC fighters - they're not Obersoldaten...

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2019, 05:22 AMZeroZeroNi

#Side note
And shocks don't have high dps at close range, they are really tanky thanks to their armor, storm, paras and rangers have higher cqc dps (the mp40 has the 2nd highest dps at 18.5, thompson have 18.2, ir stg has the most at 22.05)

Jump back to quoted post10 Dec 2019, 07:54 AMSander93

Those are DPS values for individual weapons. Shocks, Paras and Stormtroopers all have comparable close range DPS (70-85) while all having unique advantages. Shocks are easily the most durable, Paras have relatively high mid range DPS, and Stormtroopers are technically worst off because they lose 25% DPS per model drop but they have camo to ambush and the Tactical Advance ability to amplify those ambushes.

IR STG 44 Obers have relatively low close range DPS at ~57 but they made up for it with high medium and decent long range damage, having great moving DPS, having 75% of their DPS concentrated on the last two models, and having 0.9 accuracy versus cover.