The most OP unit is the game *drum roll* is...

While it isn't "the most OP unit ingame", playing against 4x MG42 backed by 2x mortar and bunker spam on rails and metal certainly makes me want to uninstall as any faction, especially brits though.

It's annoying, but not necessarily that tricky to beat. USF's MHTs make short work of it, as does a well micro'd M3+Flamer (at least to start), or just heavy use of smoke. UKF is kind of in a rough spot if they lose their flamer-UC, though, but that's mainly because of (bad) faction design.

It's annoying, but not necessarily that tricky to beat. USF's MHTs make short work of it, as does a well micro'd M3+Flamer (at least to start), or just heavy use of smoke. UKF is kind of in a rough spot if they lose their flamer-UC, though, but that's mainly because of (bad) faction design.

That's not an early comp issue (you are not going to see that many MG nor bunkers till mid or late game) but rather a map thing (rails and metal specifically).
At that point Clowncar or UC are irrelevant.

Bunker is mostly used defensively, not necessarily covering a VP completely or just around the fuel/cut off position.

Outside of SU (Katyusha) this forces specific platystyle and commander, which is mostly what Shadow complains about.
Exacerbated by spawn position as well. You can' really go towards the further VP if you are in the opposite side of the map, mostly due to painful long retreat paths.

It's not a balance issue, just that some people might not like the usual grinding that this kind of maps can devolve into.

To be fair, you can easy outplay HMG42 with Maxims and Vickers, because it will stop shooting when it gets yellow pinned. Maxim more or less ignores suppression, Vickers also perfomes besser under that situations.

HMG is here, because the rest of Ostheer can't fight on in price/power comparison.

Edit: I would like to see HMG34 instead of HMG42 for Ostheer, move it to OKW instead.

Making shock-grenade non-doc and give Pios some light AT-option would bring the change in line... only a thought.

Why do some people want a total boring game, where every MG is the same, every Infantry has same stats, every tank is the same...!?
Yea the mg42 is great.
But Wehrmacht has other handycaps.

To be fair, you can easy outplay HMG42 with Maxims and Vickers, because it will stop shooting when it gets yellow pinned.

This is false. The suppression penalties just penalize the HMG42s specific attributes more, namely the fact that it quadruples cooldown time and reload time both of which are a fair bit longer for the mg42 than the maxim.

This is false. The suppression penalties just penalize the HMG42s specific attributes more, namely the fact that it quadruples cooldown time and reload time both of which are a fair bit longer for the mg42 than the maxim.

I have to check the 1vs1 situation again, the performance between HMG42 and Maxim often changed and multible Maxims are still normal tactic. On real scenarios with multible units Maxim perform more flexible than HMGs, because Ostheers arty and infantry-abilities can't counter as effective, in comparison with needed cost and micro.

Molotov, diverse mortar, Zis arty-barrage and early T70 simply are more potential than rifle-grenades, mortar and 222.

Germans units had unique abiliies, now they often have overpriced stuff. e.g. geballte isn't worth the price, it isn't better than egg-grenade, because of longer timer and worse range. Rifle-grenade only works versus bad path-finding. PaK40 isn't better than any other AT-tank-gun, it still bounces (IS2, KV, Chruchill) etc.

Germans arn't bad, but it is more butt-hurt to play.

I have to check the 1vs1 situation again, the performance between HMG42 and Maxim often changed and multible Maxims are still normal tactic. On real scenarios with multible units Maxim perform more flexible than HMGs, because Ostheers arty and infantry-abilities can't counter as effective, in comparison with needed cost and micro.

Molotov, diverse mortar, Zis arty-barrage and early T70 simply are more potential than rifle-grenades, mortar and 222.

Maxim will beat mg42 in a shootout 1v1 because the attributes suppression effects have a bigger effect on the mg42s unique characteristics than a maxims. This does not mean the mg42 completely stops firing when it is suppressed, but its cooldown between bursts quadruples to something like 7 seconds while the maxims is less than 2 seconds with the same penalty.


I agree that the T70 is strong, I agree that mortar flares see more use than counter battery, I agree that the zis arty barrage is good. I disagree that those specific atrributes make the individual units stronger than equivalent axis units.
Target weak point is an very strong ability, incendiary rounds is currently superior to sustained fire, 222 has AA capability, and grens have a longer range snare than cons.

You also dont need to tech twice to get a sniper and a machine gun.

Maxim will beat mg42 in a shootout 1v1 because the attributes suppression effects have a bigger effect on the mg42s unique characteristics than a maxims. This does not mean the mg42 completely stops firing when it is suppressed, but its cooldown between bursts quadruples to something like 7 seconds while the maxims is less than 2 seconds with the same penalty.


I agree that the T70 is strong, I agree that mortar flares see more use than counter battery, I agree that the zis arty barrage is good. I disagree that those specific atrributes make the individual units stronger than equivalent axis units.
Target weak point is an very strong ability, incendiary rounds is currently superior to sustained fire, 222 has AA capability, and grens have a longer range snare than cons.

You also dont need to tech twice to get a sniper and a machine gun.

That is correct. But it can't be the fact, that one fraction is simply "easyer" to use, because all unit can really benefit from multible uses, the othe doesn't.

Faust also buggs, while AT-grenade doesn't ^^

And yes, incendiary rounds are really good. Sadly you need it to counter flamer-carrier etc.

All over, some units are still not balanced, because some people want to hang on old CoH2 vanilla fraction design.

-> PaK40 could get a direct high-explisive shot, only for punish blobbs.
-> Grens could get the week stun-grenade non-doc, to give them some more offensive power.
-> StuG E could get non-doc T2 unit, unlooked with T3. Give a weak AT-round (30-range) to get some tools versus T70, when it trolls around.

Then we can speak about weaker incendiary rounds and mines.

That is correct. But it can't be the fact, that one fraction is simply "easyer" to use, because all unit can really benefit from multible uses, the othe doesn't.

Faust also buggs, while AT-grenade doesn't ^^

And yes, incendiary rounds are really good. Sadly you need it to counter flamer-carrier etc.

All over, some units are still not balanced, because some people want to hang on old CoH2 vanilla fraction design.

-> PaK40 could get a direct high-explisive shot, only for punish blobbs.
-> Grens could get the week stun-grenade non-doc, to give them some more offensive power.
-> StuG E could get non-doc T2 unit, unlooked with T3. Give a weak AT-round (30-range) to get some tools versus T70, when it trolls around.

Then we can speak about weaker incendiary rounds and mines.

Im not entirely sure your what your point is. Yes, pak doesnt have an artillery barrage, but the zis doesnt have target weak point either. Yeah grens dont have a non doc close range grenade, but cons dont have a long range grenade either.
Are you saying that all units should have equal types of abilities?

Its the worst hmg in the game because of its turn time, all you need to do is go to the edge of the arc and your almost always guaranteed to go out in the arc before he gets you.

Now the 50cal on the otherhad....

Im not entirely sure your what your point is. Yes, pak doesnt have an artillery barrage, but the zis doesnt have target weak point either. Yeah grens dont have a non doc close range grenade, but cons dont have a long range grenade either.
Are you saying that all units should have equal types of abilities?

The problem is, that you can simply push with non-brainer tactics, spaming shouldn't be that potential. One high-explosive on target, same power as one direct hit of zis. It would still not one-shot alii-units (sice) but could break blobs, like a large rife-grenade. MG and PaK spam is simply to effective versus Germans.

Brummbär's bunker-burst is good, but the refresh is so long.

The ability shouldn't be op, only a tool to fix some things.

The problem is, that you can simply push with non-brainer tactics, spaming shouldn't be that potential.

Isn't that the case with all factions?

Is this a troll thread?

Isn't that the case with all factions?

More or less, people use easy way.

But look at bits, the fraction is so bad designed, that it needs some OP things so the rest works. That isn't how it should work.

I am no fan of HMG42, because it is way too good on open maps. So I would like to see a HMG34 instead, to balance I would like to see non-doc stun-grenades for Grens. Mass Maxims are still a thing, and it is hard to counter, because all ligh veicles are simply outplayed by PTRS or Zis (in other direction T70 with little inf. can outplay most things), while bouth still works as AI. One little bonus one PaK40 could push the situation in the right way, without changing all stats again. etc.

Sadly, I'm going to find myself agreeing with CODGUY somewhat. The HMG42 because of timing, stats, power level etc etc IS the most OP unit in the game. But because of design flaws, the unit is necessary very much like the Jackson is necessary in the spot its in to keep USF from collapsing. So in essence, learn to smoke and play around them because youre right, its not changing or going anywhere.

Sadly, I'm going to find myself agreeing with CODGUY somewhat. The HMG42 because of timing, stats, power level etc etc IS the most OP unit in the game. But because of design flaws, the unit is necessary very much like the Jackson is necessary in the spot its in to keep USF from collapsing. So in essence, learn to smoke and play around them because youre right, its not changing or going anywhere.

It's strong, but nowhere near M36 "oppression" levels.

The MG42 does very, very little actual damage - especially against anything in cover or garrisoned; compare its damage output of that to the .50cal or Vickers, and you'll see that it can't really drain any MP, it just forces retreats (hard or soft). It does suppress incredibly quickly, but that's the only area it's truly exceptional in (AP rounds seem in-line with other MG-AP rounds).

Even then, its suppression isn't insurmountable; get some Double-Bren-Bolstered-Vet 3 infantry sections or Vet3 rifles w/ M1919s, and you'll be able to melt it head-on. It also has the slowest traversal rate in the game (for MGs), making it very vulnerable to simply having two units attack in from slightly different angles. Another counter is that due to the 3 second pack up time, it is exceedingly vulnerable to Penal-satchels; if the throw animation is started, the MG is gone. This means that OST players will likely move/retreat the MG if penals even get close, regardless of the satchel being thrown or not.

It's a very solid unit, but by no means is it OP. There are simply too many ways to counter it for it to be "oppressive", many of which are available quite early on (having 2+ infantry squads, mortar smoke, MHT smoke, RE smoke, penals, flamer UC/M3).

One huge problem is, that Ostheer needs the pen, because Grens have no chance in close combat. Ostheer's Pios even lose near-combat versus most units. If the HMG doesn't works (urban maps, many corners) Ostheer has no chance until Panzergrens arrive. That is bad fraction design.

The MG42 does very, very little actual damage - especially against anything in cover or garrisoned; compare its damage output of that to the .50cal or Vickers, and you'll see that it can't really drain any MP, it just forces retreats (hard or soft). It does suppress incredibly quickly, but that's the only area it's truly exceptional in (AP rounds seem in-line with other MG-AP rounds).

The HMG42 actually has better DPS than the M2HB and comparable DPS to the Vickers HMG. The double damage modifier it gets with AP rounds combined with it's high rof (accuracy matters much less versus vehicle targets) also makes it's AP round ability the highest damage source from a MG in the game versus all targets. This is offset by having to reload.

I don't think the HMG42 is OP, but to say it does little damage (particularly in comparison to other MGs in the game) isn't really accurate, and neither really is it really fitting in my opinion to say the AP rounds are not exceptional, as it can very quickly shred anything short of a light tank, and generally far outclasses the M2HB and the Dshka in overall damage output.

The HMG34 on the other hand actually does really overall pathetic damage and the AP rounds don't really capitalize on it's base stats. And of course all MGs do less damage versus the infantry they suppress, so faster suppression can in a way reduce overall damage output.

Its the worst hmg in the game because of its turn time, all you need to do is go to the edge of the arc and your almost always guaranteed to go out in the arc before he gets you.

Now the 50cal on the otherhad....

Basically so.
It is good at t0 timings and gets worser to worst as a match goes on. Slow on everything except suppression. But allies have more than familiarised avoiding that as you said

Besides allies have better units to kill mg than wehr to theirs. Better moving dps, more units firing, smoke, flames, hurrah, earlier arty, LV, moving accuracy

If anything, mg42 needs a traverse vet bonus to scale late games.

Basically so.
It is good at t0 timings and gets worser to worst as a match goes on. Slow on everything except suppression. But allies have more than familiarised avoiding that as you said

Besides allies have better units to kill mg than wehr to theirs. Better moving dps, more units firing, smoke, flames, hurrah, earlier arty, LV, moving accuracy

If anything, mg42 needs a traverse vet bonus to scale late games.

Actually no. It gets better with vet, only marginally, the main problem is that its got super vulernable crews with a slow ass set up time compounded with the turn time adding in more time.

Basaically in the clearest way i could describe it.

>Squad charging 50 cal
>50 cal sets up
>Squads gets on edge of arc
>Gets shot and suppressed

>Squad charging mg42
>It sets up
>Squad gets on edge of arc
>Takes an additional second to aim and now its getting flank and loses several crew models if not the entire squad.