State of the Soviets

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 14:14 PMAerohank

Buff Panther main gun penetration so it's better against the IS-2 without becomming impossible to deal with in team games. Decrease IS-2 vet bonus range to 45 instead of 50.

There we go, easy fix. Now axis has a counter to the IS-2. No need to nerf a faction into oblivion because 1 doctrinal unit is too good.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 14:51 PMWingZero

This looks like a laundry list of nerfing the entire Soviet faction. It took YEARS to make T-34 somewhat viable and we should its nerf it again?

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:01 PMVipper

"Ram" has little to do with balance of the unit, it is simply "cheesy".

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 14:44 PMWingZero

Nerfing T-70, IS-2 and cons (which we finally buffed to offset Penals) will make the Soviet faction crap just like the Brits. 2 v 2 is a different game mode and majority of the issues listed here for T-70 are negligible in higher game modes, not to mention IS-2 gets completely shutdown in 4 v 4.

Every faction has its strengths & weakness meaning Soviets get crap mainline infantry while its light vehicles are the best. You cannot just nerf both T-70 and Cons. No way Soviets can hold off Falls and Obers mid/late game unless the Soviet player microed the hell out of his T-70 and kept it alive to fight them.

I wouldn't even touch the IS-2 because its mainly in a doctrine and part of countering this unit is dependent on a competent player. Just like Soviets and Allies to have to re-think strategies of countering elephant. Also, IS-2 has a notoriously long repair time!

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:03 PMWingZero

Its a high risk/high reward game play at the cost of a tank. I was triggered by "Tone down MG damage" you mentioned.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:07 PMFarlion

Disagree on that count. 7 man cons are incredibly potent infantry when parked behind green cover. I'd also point out that Soviet infantry also includes Guards and Shocks that can easily compete with their respective counterparts.

The IS-2 comparison isn't quite accurate because the Elefant has direct counters, and only shuts down frontal armored assaults. By contrast, the IS-2 will deal with everything that's on the battlefield, and it's only reliable counter is a Tiger.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:08 PMVipper

Well Soviet tanks have little reason to have MG with the DPS of the 3 axis tank get at the cost of MU.

And there are many reason for that.

Generally speaking vehicles MG need an overhaul so that the that have similar profiles.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:07 PMFarlion

Disagree on that count. 7 man cons are incredibly potent infantry when parked behind green cover. I'd also point out that Soviet infantry also includes Guards and Shocks that can easily compete with their respective counterparts.

The IS-2 comparison isn't quite accurate because the Elefant has direct counters, and only shuts down frontal armored assaults. By contrast, the IS-2 will deal with everything that's on the battlefield, and it's only reliable counter is a Tiger.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:13 PMWingZero

How are you struggling vs cons when they are plenty of units like Obers, Falls, PGs, LMG/G43 Grens, and plus combined arms play?

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:52 PMMr Carmine

Soviets have no ai upgrade outside the 7th man or nade non doc. The t70 being strong but coming latest compensates that. Shocks and guards being potent have nothing to do with cons being potent late game, they are doctrinal.
While guards and shocks can compete against doc and non doc inf, cons coudnt against almost every inf beat them handsdown without 7th man after ai upgrades hit the field. They where just a expensive snare unit nothing more. Now they can defend and force more input to dislodge them.

The tiger also counters everything sov. So why is only the is2 the problem? That said i do feel heavies in general come to early. They need a delay across the board.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:08 PMVipper

Well Soviet tanks have little reason to have MG with the DPS of the 3 axis tank get at the cost of MU.

And there are many reason for that.

Generally speaking vehicles MG need an overhaul so that the that have similar profiles.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 16:01 PMFarlion

Because my units are mostly 4 man that aren't that difficult to wipe. Good luck nailing 7 man cons. Losing a vet 3 gren is devastating. Losing a vet 3 7-man con isn't a big deal because due to the upgrade they are easily replaced.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 16:31 PMSerrith

I'd like to see the potency of the T70 toned down a fair bit, with a cost reduction and subsequent cost reduction to tier 3 to make an m5 rush or 7 man con rush more viable.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 14:53 PMWingZero

I don't think its a good idea to buff Panther's penetration to counter ONE DOCTRINE unit, not to mention the implication it would have vs USF and Brits.

Also, not everyone picks IS-2 every game!

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 16:23 PMWingZero

This is not an argument for nerfing cons but bad micro/luck and faction design.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 15:52 PMMr Carmine

Soviets have no ai upgrade outside the 7th man or nade non doc. The t70 being strong but coming latest compensates that. Shocks and guards being potent have nothing to do with cons being potent late game, they are doctrinal.
While guards and shocks can compete against doc and non doc inf, cons coudnt against almost every inf beat them handsdown without 7th man after ai upgrades hit the field. They where just a expensive snare unit nothing more. Now they can defend and force more input to dislodge them.

The tiger also counters everything sov. So why is only the is2 the problem? That said i do feel heavies in general come to early. They need a delay across the board.

Jump back to quoted post5 Dec 2019, 17:33 PMmrgame2

This post highlights the problem with Sov.
They have a solution for everything at any phase of the game. Doctrine plays a part now that their stock units are so good.

Tiger does not counter SU85 sorry. 60TD needs to drop some range then we say.
IS2 instead counters everything Wehr have, maybe except Elefant...