pls bring out more 4v4 maps
20 Nov 2019, 23:35 PM
#1
Posts: 255
Permanently Bannedand more creative maps
25 Nov 2019, 10:33 AM
#2
Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4
and more creative maps
GL, every time a map that is put in that isn't "tournament ready" & is for "fun" and offers strategies for "non-meta" the community loses their collective minds.
That and relics communication with mappers (or just in general) is... uh... lack luster at best?
They haven't fixed a ton of bugs, Duetz is still in rotation, but just doesn't appear, "Vilshanka" bug is still not fixed and is on a a bunch more maps, there was some bug with Stalingrad again, there is a bug with 4v4 maps and vetos not working or selecting the wrong maps, ect;
So the only reason there was a new 4v4 map is because Mako had been working on his since, I dunno, 2-3 years ago? The amount of time it takes, community backlash, and Relic improperly implementing them/the uploads being bugged, really doesn't warrant us to do anything, especially for free.
That and we were supposed to get 3 new 1v1 maps with the "next" map patch (of which I have ready to go and have had ready to go for almost 8 months), that was what I was told in May by Andy when I uploaded fixed versions of the map trying to pin down the Vilshanka bug, this was also meant to fix Deutz, I then promptly never heard from him again. Even during the map updates that occurred recently.
That and to make a "good" 4v4 would take months of daily work and would never truly be balanced anyways.
So basically don't hold your breath.
25 Nov 2019, 14:11 PM
#3
Posts: 255
Permanently BannedHold on. How does a 4v4 map take months?! Thats ridiculous. How is it hard to balance a map? I dont undersand that either.
I was told 50 new maps we would see wiht the next patch. I wa ssurpicsed how little it was.
I was told 50 new maps we would see wiht the next patch. I wa ssurpicsed how little it was.
25 Nov 2019, 20:44 PM
#4
Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2
Hold on. How does a 4v4 map take months?! Thats ridiculous. How is it hard to balance a map? I dont undersand that either.
I was told 50 new maps we would see wiht the next patch. I wa ssurpicsed how little it was.
A 1v1 map can take up to a couple weeks to get looking pretty and being somewhat balanced. A 4v4 map is much larger, and therefore takes a lot of time. Balance is not as critical though, so play testing is not super critical. One wrong building on a 1v1 map can break the map for certain factions. The same building on a 4v4 can usually be countered by someone on the team.
Balancing a 4v4 map is more about space in the main fighting areas (middle 100 meters of the map). Too many buildings like Lienne or Lorch and it hurts certain factions. Too many close quarters areas and axis will suffer since their mainlines are long range (Lienne Forest). Having fuel and vp right next to each other will give brits a leg up when they plop a bofors between the points (Red Ball). Having safe fuels will help certain factions just camp and rush out heavy tanks. These are just a couple examples of the 100 things to work around for balance.
50 new maps!!! Not sure where this rumor was found. I dont recall more than one new map being announced. The map patch was supposed to only be a couple maps that had leftover bugs. But it turned into about 28 maps being worked on or so? And we got several new maps!!! But I am down with 50 new maps if Relic is.
25 Nov 2019, 22:07 PM
#5
Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4
Hold on. How does a 4v4 map take months?! Thats ridiculous. How is it hard to balance a map? I dont undersand that either.
I was told 50 new maps we would see wiht the next patch. I wa ssurpicsed how little it was.
Go make a 1v1 and then multiple the time you spent by 8. Also 50 new maps, that's a hell of a rumor. Someone would have to be being paid for that, and there is nobody getting paid to my knowledge.
25 Nov 2019, 22:25 PM
#6
Posts: 281
Guys why was fields of winnekendonk removed from 3 v 3 pool? Any idea?
25 Nov 2019, 22:47 PM
#7
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
Guys why was fields of winnekendonk removed from 3 v 3 pool? Any idea?
bug.
26 Nov 2019, 02:21 AM
#8
Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4
26 Nov 2019, 10:14 AM
#9
Posts: 1138 | Subs: 2
Guys why was fields of winnekendonk removed from 3 v 3 pool? Any idea?
I changed the map slightly to get out some quirks (mostly fences that units could get trapped behind, and opened up the corridor NW of the central VP somewhat). This updated version was supposed to be in the patch as well, but apparently there was some issue when adding the new version to the mappool.
I was asked to repackage it (might have been some version conflict, I guess?) so it hopefully can be added back in soon (TM).
26 Nov 2019, 12:22 PM
#10
Posts: 255
Permanently BannedI still dont understand what u mean wiht balanced map/.
And u say too many buildings hurt some factions?
Thats rather silly to say. If anyting hurts a faction, then its not the map but underpowered factions themselfe.
And u say too many buildings hurt some factions?
Thats rather silly to say. If anyting hurts a faction, then its not the map but underpowered factions themselfe.
26 Nov 2019, 12:24 PM
#11
Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4
I still dont understand what u mean wiht balanced map/.
And u say too many buildings hurt some factions?
Thats rather silly to say. If anyting hurts a faction, then its not the map but underpowered factions themselfe.
You are half right, I mean, a map can be completely balanced wrong with pathing issues and too much or too little cover.
I changed the map slightly to get out some quirks (mostly fences that units could get trapped behind, and opened up the corridor NW of the central VP somewhat). This updated version was supposed to be in the patch as well, but apparently there was some issue when adding the new version to the mappool.
I was asked to repackage it (might have been some version conflict, I guess?) so it hopefully can be added back in soon (TM).
This happens all the time, about 50% of the time there is a map update, the wrong version is uploaded or the upload is bugged in some way. It is not your fault in anyway, this is just how Relic works.
For example, the wrong version of westwall was in rotation for about a year.
26 Nov 2019, 13:54 PM
#12
Posts: 255
Permanently Bannedtoo little cover? Too muhc cover?
I still dont understand how this unabalnces a map. How the hell can a map be unbalanced>!>!>??
Environments are different. They can fight in the desert, there is little cover, so what. This has happened.
And maps should be asymetrical.
I still dont understand how this unabalnces a map. How the hell can a map be unbalanced>!>!>??
Environments are different. They can fight in the desert, there is little cover, so what. This has happened.
And maps should be asymetrical.
26 Nov 2019, 18:28 PM
#13
Posts: 2144 | Subs: 2
I still dont understand how this unabalnces a map.
Are you trolling here? We just gave you several examples.
IN DEPTH EXAMPLE:
Lets say you make a small narrow 1v1 map that is very open like your desert example. The enemy is soviet and spams maxims. You are OKW and have NO counters to MGs for 4 minutes of the game. Everywhere you move, you run into a maxim and get suppressed. You get pushed into your base, game over.
To balance that map, the mapper needs to add a lot of sight blockers such as hedges, dead buildings, etc. So OKW units can get around a wall of MGs.
If you add too many sight blockers, OKWs mainline infantry (Volks) will get rekt by allied infantry that is much stronger close-mid range.
And maps should be asymetrical.
The most balanced maps would be symmetrical. But symmetrical is boring to look at and does not feel like a real setting. So it needs to be as symmetrical as it can be, while still feeling 'realistic' to play on.
STATISTICAL EXAMPLE
Here are some map statistics for 1v1 that shows which factions are strongest on which maps.
In the chart above, you can see how certain maps favor certain factions.
If a map looks super balanced in the chart,it may because it is NOT symmetric. And the map favors one spawn over another.
26 Nov 2019, 20:34 PM
#14
Posts: 281
too little cover? Too muhc cover?
I still dont understand how this unabalnces a map. How the hell can a map be unbalanced>!>!>??
Environments are different. They can fight in the desert, there is little cover, so what. This has happened.
And maps should be asymetrical.
Yes too little cover affects several units. Look up infantry sections. Also mg on negative cover can be taken head on easily. No cover means long range infantry will shred charging cqc units. So a good map has a mix of everything
26 Nov 2019, 20:34 PM
#15
Posts: 281
I changed the map slightly to get out some quirks (mostly fences that units could get trapped behind, and opened up the corridor NW of the central VP somewhat). This updated version was supposed to be in the patch as well, but apparently there was some issue when adding the new version to the mappool.
I was asked to repackage it (might have been some version conflict, I guess?) so it hopefully can be added back in soon (TM).
Thanks for the clarification
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