The mother of all Coh2 ideas thread

I didnt say to nerf them, infact it says that if there is multiple units shooting one unit the one unit gets raped.. sounds to me like soviets have a advantage right there. Read what i write as a whole package dont cherry pick one idea and blow it out of proportion,

Why would I want one faction of the game to be completely shit while making the other op? I want a great game to rival coh not some joke wih the coh name on it.

For what the cons would lack in a 1 v 1 they would make up for in numbers if used right,

Multiple squads firing on one does not give soviets any advantage. Conscripts cost exactly the same as grenadiers. There is no numbers advantage here except for the number of models, which is almost purely a disadvantage against small arms not counting snipers. Hell, if you actually get the HQ upgrades then soviet teching requires a lot more manpower than Ostheer so you can even say that Grenadiers are very likely to outnumber Conscripts squad wise.

As far as I can tell the only suggestion you had that would improve a soviet unit early game was buffing penals (which is not a solution, if penals were to be the only way to respond to gren spam then you could always be T2 vehicle rushed) and even there you specified late game.

I'm sure there will be plenty of mods if you want CoH2 to be vcoh all over again, just wait.
It's pretty clear that the intention was to make a different game and while it still has issues, they have nothing to do with the fact that it's different than vcoh.

Different is totally fine with me, but if ist a coh game it needs to follow the basic mechanics that made coh amazing. If it changes the basics then its not a coh game. I dont want to play coh over and over I wanted a new game, but its obviously a sequel and needs to do things better than the original and it doesn't for 80% of things.

For gods sakes even the engine is worse, the mechanics are dumbed down versions of what they were before, they cant even give tanks different reverse speeds. They have no damage tables, units cost the same even when they are not the same, bulletins... commanders are recycles and not well thought out, the single player is one of the worst iv ever seen, unit movement and controls are clunky and sluggish, the voice acting is bad, the hud is awful, the explosion effects are worse, viloence is removed.. I could go on and on

So yeh different is great but worse isnt.

No offense but I can post as often as I like. You sound to me like someone that has come to coh2 without ever playing coh. See I played coh from the first month that the game came out 8 years ago and I have enough experience in coh2 to know what up.

Ok where to start.. at nades cost fuel.. yep they do but they are a no brainer upgrade that has 0 influence on tech or the soviet choices in general. Its not a option of getting them or mollies or getting them instead of something else, as a soviet player you just get them they might as well be free.

Chek out coh for a road bonus, the vehicles are basically 2 times the speed that they are on the rough ground, this means you can use roads to actually make maneuvers, in coh there's hardly a difference.

Does the panther have more health and damage? Yep but is it substantial in game? health wise sure but damage no. When a unit that is designed to kill tanks, costs 2-3 times more then the su85 actually struggle to kill a su85 while flanking and what I mean by that is it takes more than 3 shots to the rear then you know the game is flawed. Go play coh just for a few matches watch how fast a panther goes down to at guns from the front, or how quick a m10 can mess up a stug from the rear... now go to coh 2 and watch the panther make a meal out of the su85 for like 30 seconds meanwhile it can be shot buy a swarm of at guns or get engine damage from teir 0 troops that cover the map.

Post as much as you like, just two separate THREADS on the same thing/s in as many days seems to only be clogging up the forums and make the discussion of it harder to follow. I played VCoH for the last six months or so before the move to the Steam servers. It's the first online game I really got into (albeit at a low level) and I think it was/is a better game by the end than COH 2 currently is. I think there have been a couple of steps back, a couple forwards and a couple sideways in the changes between the two games.

AT nades are usually bought by the Soviets because they are borderline essential against Scout cars or FHTs. They do significantly delay the first T-70 or T-34 so if you can skip them (say, you're up against pure grenspam to P-IVs) and then buy them later in the game, it's not a bad idea to do so. Tell me, if Panzerfausts cost fuel would you say that of the Ostheer?

Roads make a pretty obvious difference for me playing with light vehicles. I can't tell if and how much that has actually changed from VCoH. In particular, this is why the Moscow Outskirts map is so good for light vehicles.

A panther has just slightly less than a 95% chance of penetrating an SU-85 frontally, FYI, which is where the AT difference really comes in. It doesn't conceivably cost three times as much, however you work out the teching costs...

I think even a P-IV has a 100% chance of penetrating an SU-85 from the rear. I believe it should take four shots for a Panther to kill or disable an SU-85. Obviously the penetration is even more of an advantage for it against more heavily armoured tanks, like the KV-8, KV-1 and IS-2. Again, while I agree with some of your points, many of them are directly contradicted by the stats and the game itself.

Nice try OP, but writing that Panthers struggle at killing Su-85 (from the back in peculiar) is a big exaggeration.

With the nerf that was imposed on Su-85, this unit is a slow near useless dead cow.
Any good German player can kill a Su-85 with a Panzer iv or a Panther now. Maybe you were just unlucky with that Panther...Too much random is another separate problem.

Shock troops nades can be powerful, but sometime they do nothing. (too random again)

For my point of view, the best nades in game are the Panzer grenadier's one and by far.

As a fun test try this :

Open a 4vs4 game, add 3 standard Germans cpus then add 3 hard soviets cpus.
Do nothing in game but watching. Who do you think will consistently ? Who get a bonus when a player drop in a 3vs3 or 4vs4 game...

Are the soviets harder to micromanage? i say yes for the computer and casual people like me.

Soviets side need dev's love a bit and more 3vs3/4vs4 maps !!!!

Do you know what can kill p grens? Ill start a list for you, m3 ht,shocks, t70, t34, su 85, zis gun, maxim, 120mm mortar, su 76, is2, isu152 and it goes on an on they die to just about everything and usualy lose 2 modes very quickly thats 90 mp right there.

Are you really talking seriously?? =))
SU85,ZiS and SU76 counter PanzerGrenadiers?

Who does even read these walls of text? And even if someone does, how do you want to have a structured discussion about 1000 different topcis in one single thread?

Make structured threads about individual topics, please

This is the MILF of all Coh2 ideas thread .

This is the MILF of all Coh2 ideas thread .

ahaha

Are you really talking seriously?? =))
SU85,ZiS and SU76 counter PanzerGrenadiers?

I didnt say counter, but they kill them enough to be a big nuisance at 45 mp a pop its not cheap and even 1 man down and your squad loses a lot of dps and ability to stay in field.

Nice try OP, but writing that Panthers struggle at killing Su-85 (from the back in peculiar) is a big exaggeration.

With the nerf that was imposed on Su-85, this unit is a slow near useless dead cow.
Any good German player can kill a Su-85 with a Panzer iv or a Panther now. Maybe you were just unlucky with that Panther...Too much random is another separate problem.

Shock troops nades can be powerful, but sometime they do nothing. (too random again)

For my point of view, the best nades in game are the Panzer grenadier's one and by far.

As a fun test try this :

Open a 4vs4 game, add 3 standard Germans cpus then add 3 hard soviets cpus.
Do nothing in game but watching. Who do you think will consistently ? Who get a bonus when a player drop in a 3vs3 or 4vs4 game...

Are the soviets harder to micromanage? i say yes for the computer and casual people like me.

Soviets side need dev's love a bit and more 3vs3/4vs4 maps !!!!

Hey by struggle I mean it takes a inordinate amount of time / shots to kill a su 85 with a flanking tank. Im sorry but if you get the drop an a SU85 you need to be rewarded with a quick kill ( just like a su 85 can do to a tank) so you can get out of there before you get at gunned/ at naded to death.

A panter or p4 can kill a su 85.. but they dont do it in way that reflects the advantages and disadvantages of units.. I get it a su 85 is the prime way to counter German armour cool, but thats when its at range and getting shots off. If it gets flanked it should be another story, speed is nerfed when sight ability is on so it taks one button and speed is out of control again, as is the health or armour as it take a crazy amount of shots from a flanking tank to take it out. Should be 3 shots 4 tops from the rear before its toast.

Watching tanks trying to take on su85 is no elegant that's for sure.

As for soviets being too hard to manage.. well i think its easier to actually micro the soviets ( less punishment if things go wrong/bigger margin of error due to cheaper units, and more units per squad ) most of the powerful units for sov as super easy to manage su85 just sit and retreat button, shocks just run at infantry, cons just molatov button, at guns barrage button, 120mm mortar just sit and then aimed fire when needed ect.

To eliminate german armour soviet just has to sit there basically, but to eliminate soviet at presence ost needs all kinds of crazy maneuvers and luck.

WHat is difficult with soviet is knowing what strategy to use, which tier ect and just being careful with understanding what is going on in the game, as ost is more flexible and enables you to make some strategic errors and still recover while as the soviets things aren't as easy.

As for the armies themselves I have no doubt that soviet is easier to micro by far, everything from snipers to at guns is much more durable and has spammable abilities one thing I ill concede is that I do tend to lost t34 a lot so that unit to me needs a bit of good micro as its just a lot weaker than a p4.

Who does even read these walls of text? And even if someone does, how do you want to have a structured discussion about 1000 different topcis in one single thread?

Make structured threads about individual topics, please

I get it its not pretty but if I didnt do it this way then id never get my point across. I for one dont mind reading a lot if its interesting info, if someone is saying something I belive in I enjoy reading it.

Im not going to go out and create the ultimate layout for my post because I dont think I would get a response that is worthy of the time investment.

I understand your point of view but I want my opinion to be noticed and discussed, and hopefully make a difference.

Post as much as you like, just two separate THREADS on the same thing/s in as many days seems to only be clogging up the forums and make the discussion of it harder to follow. I played VCoH for the last six months or so before the move to the Steam servers. It's the first online game I really got into (albeit at a low level) and I think it was/is a better game by the end than COH 2 currently is. I think there have been a couple of steps back, a couple forwards and a couple sideways in the changes between the two games.

AT nades are usually bought by the Soviets because they are borderline essential against Scout cars or FHTs. They do significantly delay the first T-70 or T-34 so if you can skip them (say, you're up against pure grenspam to P-IVs) and then buy them later in the game, it's not a bad idea to do so. Tell me, if Panzerfausts cost fuel would you say that of the Ostheer?

Roads make a pretty obvious difference for me playing with light vehicles. I can't tell if and how much that has actually changed from VCoH. In particular, this is why the Moscow Outskirts map is so good for light vehicles.

A panther has just slightly less than a 95% chance of penetrating an SU-85 frontally, FYI, which is where the AT difference really comes in. It doesn't conceivably cost three times as much, however you work out the teching costs...

I think even a P-IV has a 100% chance of penetrating an SU-85 from the rear. I believe it should take four shots for a Panther to kill or disable an SU-85. Obviously the penetration is even more of an advantage for it against more heavily armoured tanks, like the KV-8, KV-1 and IS-2. Again, while I agree with some of your points, many of them are directly contradicted by the stats and the game itself.

I appreciate your feedback, I am glad you got to experience coh as a game. I understand that the at nade is needed as is a faust.. but if the other changes got implemented into the game like im saying then stuff like only relying on at nade/faust would not be necessary as AT guns could do the bulk of early and mid game AT duties.

The fact is that soviets will usually have more cons then an ost player will have grens and its basically impossible to maneuver vehicles without running into a t0 unit which can and will disable its engine.

The huge difference between faust and at nade is that, with the faust its attached to a unit that has only 4 models and soviets get a lot of maneuverable and powerful at units, so in one or 2 shots you have to retreat for fear of annhiliation, soviets do not have to fear squads being wiped anywhere close to that. Therefore I would say a faust should come for free while at nades should come with a cost and I guess the devs thought so too on this one.

Im sorry that you feel that im clogging the forums but I think these discussions are different enough to warrant 2 threads and Id like to think Im contributing to the community with my posts. I dont care about small balance changes, but overall game and mechanics changes that everyone would love, even if they dont know it.

My aim is to make coh2 its own game, but make the basics feel as good as vcoh did, and even those that dont know better now would acknowledge that it was a change for the better.

The truth is I have put in many years into the games and i have a wealth of experience into what makes the games good or bad, even if im not the best player or currently not enjoy playing soviets as much as ost.