How to make airborne guards better?

The unit simply suffer from an identity crisis, it not designed as an infiltration unit but it is designed as an air dropped unit without being able to be airdropped.

Some ideas about improving:

With PPSH upgrade

PPsh upgrade is simply bad and it will always be as long a the equally badly weapon airdrop provides ppsh to the cheaper Penal and Shock troops remain at that power level.

The units will always compare pale to those 2 units.

With DP-28 upgrade

An infiltration unit with LMG upgrade will continue to weird.

The unit should either become an infiltration unit and designed as that (camo, utility...) or it should become a simple call in unit and be thus become cheaper.

As for infiltration units generally they should also become available from HQ for no premium.

As for infiltration units generally they should also become available from HQ for no premium.

It will be really good change for all infiltration units. Because in late-game or even mid-game you couldn't find any ambient building on map.

enough good unit

Rocket strafes aren’t broken enough, we need cheap immobilizing from distance to make them even more lethal.

He is right. There seems to be no advantage for going 100 ammo dp upgrades. Button ability like regular guards would be nice. If you look at the unit you will realize how badly designed it is. There's no synergy with the commander. It's a dead commander. Tweaking few things can improve this.

I agree either make this a proper infiltration unit. Or give some quality bonuses to this unit. Currently it is meh abd will remain unless things are changed. Like there's no first strike bonus with ppsh upgrade cuz no camo. I wonder how they infiltrated a house if they are unable to camo. And yes i stand that the squad must be able to use both grenades for the premium price point. If there's an issue they can spawn with 5 models but with better abilities.

Eh. its fine as is.

Hi. I know you are a top player in 1 v 1. But tell me how many times have you used this squad?
The il2 suppression ability is a gimmick. No damage. No sustained suppression. 60 mp gone down the drain

He is right. There seems to be no advantage for going 100 ammo dp upgrades. Button ability like regular guards would be nice. If you look at the unit you will realize how badly designed it is. There's no synergy with the commander. It's a dead commander. Tweaking few things can improve this.

You don’t even understand what I just said. In your mind guards are a unit that needs buffs and any idea you hear is good. Meanwhile at high level play rocket strafes are quite cancerous and can delete your armour easily if you get caught by a mine, snare or T34 ram. The button suggestion, which would make guards the only squad with button and just LMGs, would make deleting armour with rocket strafe way easier, as competent players would button, then snare/ram and then rocket strafe.

You don’t even understand what I just said. In your mind guards are a unit that needs buffs and any idea you hear is good. Meanwhile at high level play rocket strafes are quite cancerous and can delete your armour easily if you get caught by a mine, snare or T34 ram. The button suggestion, which would make guards the only squad with button and just LMGs, would make deleting armour with rocket strafe way easier, as competent players would button, then snare/ram and then rocket strafe.

I understand everything what you said. In high level play people use mine sweepers before sending their armor in. In ram soviets also lose 90 fuel and 300 mp. To top it, using the il2 rocket strafe requires quite a certain level of skill which if you ask me should be rewarded.

I only argue for this unit because i have extensively used this commander. And airborne guards definitely need some changes if not buffs.

If regular guards can get a button ability i see no reason why can't air guards get after 100 muni dp upgrades. Regular guards can be paired with il2 precision bombing so i see no reason why strafe can't be paired as well. Also in high level play, players determine the direction of the plane and get out of the strike zone. So yeah people know how to avoid it.

There are so many abilities which are broken. I could argue of the smoke in grand offensive but that would be off topic.

Hi. I know you are a top player in 1 v 1. But tell me how many times have you used this squad?
The il2 suppression ability is a gimmick. No damage. No sustained suppression. 60 mp gone down the drain

Plenty of times, problem isnt the ability but the fact that having svt cons is just plainly more effecient so there's no point in getting the guards in the first place when you can spend much less mp and 45 muni for a better squad.

Plenty of times, problem isnt the ability but the fact that having svt cons is just plainly more effecient so there's no point in getting the guards in the first place when you can spend much less mp and 45 muni for a better squad.

Exactly. That's why the unit needs some kind of changes to make it viable.

Exactly. That's why the unit needs some kind of changes to make it viable.

No. Svt cons need to be nerfed from broken to actually balanced.

You don’t even understand what I just said. In your mind guards are a unit that needs buffs and any idea you hear is good. Meanwhile at high level play rocket strafes are quite cancerous and can delete your armour easily if you get caught by a mine, snare or T34 ram. The button suggestion, which would make guards the only squad with button and just LMGs, would make deleting armour with rocket strafe way easier, as competent players would button, then snare/ram and then rocket strafe.

No one ask about straight buffs, just make so high cost unit workable. Unit have 2 different upgrades, free ppsh don't give you anything. Tell me in which state 3 CP 380MP unit with ppsh better than 2 CP 360 MP shocks - shocks cheaper, have armor and the same grenades? In which terms they better than guards with dp-28? Guards have button and firing position and could fight against light vehicle (and upgrade cost less). What have ABG? Useless il-2 strafe and 3-rd dp-28...What show their elite status? High cost? Why all other elite infantry in game have cool and workable abilities while ABG don't? Shared cooldown on grenades for ABG - stupidiest thing.

Just compare ABG with other elite infantry:
1. Obers - stocks, good scale, have WP nade and bundle nade, could palnt booby trap on points, in doctrine have access do IR STG and valley nades(IRC, maybe i'm wrong).
2. Falls - could set in ANY point of map, stealth, first strike bonus, faust, have WP nade and bundle nade, have synergy with Papa Faterland and ability of stuka raid.
3. Commandos - cheaper significant (320, but 3 men and already equiped) or cost little more (390 MP 5 man squad fully equiped with glaider, but glaider give you ability to set them in ANY point of map and also give you reinforcements); stealth, bundle nade, first strike bonus, smoke grenade. Could carry boosted brens.
4. USF paras - could be set in ANY point of map, could get reinforcements from radio net. You could take any team weapons and reinforce it by radio net. With thompsons - close range monsters, due tactical advance. Have very long range of grenades, could have boosted versions of zooks. With 2 lmg have suppresion fire. Good synergy with commander ability.

In fact, now ABG are just:
1. With ppsh castrated version of shocks
2. With dp-28 castrated version of obers

While for both roles you ALWAYS have better variants - want soviet ober? Build guards and they will be have much more synergy with their commanders abilities and your army as well. Want close-combat? Shocks or penals with ppsh or even cons with ppsh.

Unit just need abilities REWORK or completely remove it and replace in doctrine by something useful ability.

With PPSH upgrade
1. Replace smoke nade on phosphorus (vet 1 ability). Remove share cooldown on grenades.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
3. Replace suppressive fire by tactic advantage or valley fire (like RE have) or "Suppressing Fire" (like paras with lmg have).

With DP-28 upgrade
1. Add button ability like guards have.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.

No one ask about straight buffs, just make so high cost unit workable. Unit have 2 different upgrades, free ppsh don't give you anything. Tell me in which state 3 CP 380MP unit with ppsh better than 2 CP 360 MP shocks - shocks cheaper, have armor and the same grenades? In which terms they better than guards with dp-28? Guards have button and firing position and could fight against light vehicle (and upgrade cost less). What have ABG? Useless il-2 strafe and 3-rd dp-28...What show their elite status? High cost? Why all other elite infantry in game have cool and workable abilities while ABG don't? Shared cooldown on grenades for ABG - stupidiest thing.

Just compare ABG with other elite infantry:
1. Obers - stocks, good scale, have WP nade and bundle nade, could palnt booby trap on points, in doctrine have access do IR STG and valley nades(IRC, maybe i'm wrong).
2. Falls - could set in ANY point of map, stealth, first strike bonus, faust, have WP nade and bundle nade, have synergy with Papa Faterland and ability of stuka raid.
3. Commandos - cheaper significant (320, but 3 men and already equiped) or cost little more (390 MP 5 man squad fully equiped with glaider, but glaider give you ability to set them in ANY point of map and also give you reinforcements); stealth, bundle nade, first strike bonus, smoke grenade. Could carry boosted brens.
4. USF paras - could be set in ANY point of map, could get reinforcements from radio net. You could take any team weapons and reinforce it by radio net. With thompsons - close range monsters, due tactical advance. Have very long range of grenades, could have boosted versions of zooks. With 2 lmg have suppresion fire. Good synergy with commander ability.

In fact, now ABG are just:
1. With ppsh castrated version of shocks
2. With dp-28 castrated version of obers

While for both roles you ALWAYS have better variants - want soviet ober? Build guards and they will be have much more synergy with their commanders abilities and your army as well. Want close-combat? Shocks or penals with ppsh or even cons with ppsh.

Unit just need abilities REWORK or completely remove it and replace in doctrine by something useful ability.

With PPSH upgrade
1. Replace smoke nade on phosphorus (vet 1 ability). Remove share cooldown on grenades.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
3. Replace suppressive fire by tactic advantage or valley fire (like RE have) or "Suppressing Fire" (like paras with lmg have).

With DP-28 upgrade
1. Add button ability like guards have.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.

Spot on. Couldn't have explained like you did. This will help others realize how much handicapped air guards are.

No. Svt cons need to be nerfed from broken to actually balanced.

How are they broken when volks can get stgs? Also svt cons don't get 7 man upgrade. The same svt are on penals. Conscripts are just cheaper to make and need muni to equip 4 svts. If we compare the reinforce costs they end up same.

How are they broken when volks can get stgs? Also svt cons don't get 7 man upgrade. The same svt are on penals. Conscripts are just cheaper to make and need muni to equip 4 svts. If we compare the reinforce costs they end up same.

45 muni that beats pretty much every other mainline once you hit vet 3, (dont have the picture one me right now since im out so you'll have to trust me here) but they beat volks at all ranges even if they're vet 5. its already bad enough to face out of cover but once theyre in cover your pretty much screwed tradewise.

heres how it goes most of the time.

>cons green cover
>volk approach
>drop 2-3 models while getting one usually ~maybe two
>retreat

>volks green cover
>cons oorah in maybe 1-2 models drop
>start trading volks
>win usually (if barely in some cases)

it also comes earlier, is cheaper and is on a six man squad. it's fucking ridicolous though not as bad as 7 men.

45 muni that beats pretty much every other mainline once you hit vet 3, (dont have the picture one me right now since im out so you'll have to trust me here) but they beat volks at all ranges even if they're vet 5. its already bad enough to face out of cover but once theyre in cover your pretty much screwed tradewise.

heres how it goes most of the time.

>cons green cover
>volk approach
>drop 2-3 models while getting one usually ~maybe two
>retreat

>volks green cover
>cons oorah in maybe 1-2 models drop
>start trading volks
>win usually (if barely in some cases)

it also comes earlier, is cheaper and is on a six man squad. it's fucking ridicolous though not as bad as 7 men.

Nice, in theme about ABG, argue about SVT-cons. Make another thread, please, if you want told about it.

45 muni that beats pretty much every other mainline once you hit vet 3, (dont have the picture one me right now since im out so you'll have to trust me here) but they beat volks at all ranges even if they're vet 5. its already bad enough to face out of cover but once theyre in cover your pretty much screwed tradewise.

heres how it goes most of the time.

>cons green cover
>volk approach
>drop 2-3 models while getting one usually ~maybe two
>retreat

>volks green cover
>cons oorah in maybe 1-2 models drop
>start trading volks
>win usually (if barely in some cases)

it also comes earlier, is cheaper and is on a six man squad. it's fucking ridicolous though not as bad as 7 men.

I will test it and report back here. Charging a stg squad is suicide though.

I understand everything what you said. In high level play people use mine sweepers before sending their armor in. In ram soviets also lose 90 fuel and 300 mp. To top it, using the il2 rocket strafe requires quite a certain level of skill which if you ask me should be rewarded.

Exactly, you don’t get it. Keep asking for buffs, but there will be no button ability added.

...

Here’s a tip, you’re arguing why airborne guards should be buffed in reply to a post that explains why giving them the ability button would lead to huge issues.

Here’s a tip, you’re arguing why airborne guards should be buffed in reply to a post that explains why giving them the ability button would lead to huge issues.

Hmm...stealth squad with faust that could cripple your engine don't make "huge issues" while ability that could be turn off by tactic smoke or decreased by blitzkrieg do it.
If it so - make from them stupid copy of falls. They didn't make huge issues for your vehicles. ABG could be deployed in any point of map with 2 "tweaked" dp-28 + another 2 you can buy for 60 muni when t4 will be deployed. Abilities the same as for falls. No Papa Faterland and reinforcements from stuka raid, by at least better than current.

>How to make airborne guards better

By giving them more utility.

Stealth, ability call in recon plane (like Airlanding officer), satchel/at satchel, demo and stuff like that.