How to make airborne guards better?

Can someone from balance team please shine some light on the decisions behind this unit?

My IMHO about this unit:

1. Paratroopers without paradrop, you can't drop them like falls behind enemy HMG and kill it. In fact they are 6 man partisans.
2. Only nades have synergy, suppressive fire deny ANY other abilities of squad from using (ability will off, if you try to use any other ability). I can't suppress enemy and throw grenade to him or call this "il2-strafe". This ability should be replaced by something usefull.
3. You can't use smoke nade and regular together. They have share cooldown. Really, i don't understand, why falls, obers, stormtroopers could throw any types of grenades without share cooldown while airborne don't? Even tommies with thompsons could use both types of grenades without cooldown. You could slow your enemy by phosphorus nade and catch him with regular/bundle.
4. Il-2 strafe very awkward ability - low damage, usefull only near to border of map. In center of map, it need too much time for action.

Some ideas about improving:

With PPSH upgrade
1. Replace smoke nade on phosphorus (vet 1 ability). Remove share cooldown on grenades.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
3. Replace suppressive fire by tactic advantage or valley fire (like RE have) or "Suppressing Fire" (like paras with lmg have).

SU don't have any off-map smoke. At least will be one doctrine with it, even, if ability will be locked inside one unit with specific upgrade.

With DP-28 upgrade
1. Add button ability like guards have.

My IMHO about this unit:


3. You can't use smoke nade and regular together. They have share cooldown. Really, i don't understand, why falls, obers, stormtroopers could throw any types of grenades without share cooldown while airborne don't? Even tommies with thompsons could use both types of grenades without cooldown. You could slow your enemy by phosphorus nade and catch him with regular/bundle.

This is a bug, Shock Troops have exactly the same bug. The Shock Troops have always had different cooldowns for frag and smoke grenades. But some kind of "genius" decided that they should have one cooldown for all grenades - and when they realized that this was a bad idea, they decided to return it as it was, but the grenades broke. And so it was decided to leave everything as it is. Without at least some kind of compensation: if Shoocks cant use the fragmentation and smoke grenades separately (and for the Shock Troops it is very important for flank attacks and MGs destruction), then maybe it would be necessary to give them the opportunity to throw a grenade in motion.

It's impossible to add some kind of "fasten" reload boost to grenades ability after it was throwed?

Like:
1. When you throwed any grenade, squad got 100%/200% or any other value to get almost insta reload for other grenade. I see it how 2 different "boosts". One from smoke nade to regular and other from regular to smoke.
2. This "boost" have cooldown after 1-st usage, equal to normal cooldown of grenade reload. Boost could be activated ONLY when both grenades already reloaded. It will prevent situation, when squad could throw grenades without any cooldown.

I am down for all of your suggestions. Just needed someone from the balance team to participate here.
Also shocks unable to throw both grenades have definitely impacted their storming from the front role. If it can't be fixed you're right it should be compensated.

My IMHO about this unit:

1. Paratroopers without paradrop, you can't drop them like falls behind enemy HMG and kill it. In fact they are 6 man partisans.
2. Only nades have synergy, suppressive fire deny ANY other abilities of squad from using (ability will off, if you try to use any other ability). I can't suppress enemy and throw grenade to him or call this "il2-strafe". This ability should be replaced by something usefull.
3. You can't use smoke nade and regular together. They have share cooldown. Really, i don't understand, why falls, obers, stormtroopers could throw any types of grenades without share cooldown while airborne don't? Even tommies with thompsons could use both types of grenades without cooldown. You could slow your enemy by phosphorus nade and catch him with regular/bundle.
4. Il-2 strafe very awkward ability - low damage, usefull only near to border of map. In center of map, it need too much time for action.

Some ideas about improving:

With PPSH upgrade
1. Replace smoke nade on phosphorus (vet 1 ability). Remove share cooldown on grenades.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
3. Replace suppressive fire by tactic advantage or valley fire (like RE have) or "Suppressing Fire" (like paras with lmg have).

SU don't have any off-map smoke. At least will be one doctrine with it, even, if ability will be locked inside one unit with specific upgrade.

With DP-28 upgrade
1. Add button ability like guards have.

Smoke would be nice. I was even down fr the smoke animation used in testing because it allowed me to spawn my units anywhere. Some maps don't really have much buildings and infiltration role is non existent but we still have to pay 380 fr one squad.

Shared CD is not a handicap of the Soviets, actually most units that have access to smoke grenade and and HE have them on shared cool down.

Unit like: Commandos, MP-40 VGs, Breakthrough PG all have their smoke grenades on Shared cool-down.

WP grenades that do damage are not shared CD and that goes for Assault IS also.

I have already said that the Guards Paratroopers are not paratroopers: there are no parachutes, there is no ability to act behind enemy lines. Now they are just a Frontline scouts squad. And their current weapon upgrade corresponds to:
- a capture group armed with submachine guns. Ability - capture a prisoner for interrogation or reconnaissance behind enemy lines.
Show Spoiler

- cover group armed with machine guns and 50-mm mortars. Ability - mortar strike.
Show Spoiler

Shared CD is not a handicap of the Soviets, actually most units that have access to smoke grenade and and HE have them on shared cool down.

Unit like: Commandos, MP-40 VGs, Breakthrough PG all have their smoke grenades on Shared cool-down.

WP grenades that do damage are not shared CD and that goes for Assault IS also.

What about falls, obers, stormtroopers? I choose doc where i have one, very high cost squad of paratroopers (3 CP, 380MP only 10 MP less than glaider with 5 equiped commandos) without paradrop and with shared cooldown grenades...very funny.
Commandos have bundle nade and stealth, they already have equiped weapon and could equip brens. I don't mind if soviet paras will have stealth and bundle, but shared CD on grens.
Assault IS - mainline infantry with regular and smoke nades, close-range unit.
VG with MP-40 - mainline infantry, close-range unit, but with fausts and it's easy to drop smoke from one squad and then frag nade from other (how often you see 2 squad of soviet paras with such tactic??).
Only Pgrens could "suffer" from it.

Shared CD is not a handicap of the Soviets, actually most units that have access to smoke grenade and and HE have them on shared cool down.

Unit like: Commandos, MP-40 VGs, Breakthrough PG all have their smoke grenades on Shared cool-down.

WP grenades that do damage are not shared CD and that goes for Assault IS also.

We are talking about a special squad here which must be able to hold its own. When units cheaper than air guards can get the smokes with no cool down sharing why can't they?

Ppsh upgrade gives no first strike bonus. No camo to synergize with infiltration role.

I have already said that the Guards Paratroopers are not paratroopers: there are no parachutes, there is no ability to act behind enemy lines. Now they are just a Frontline scouts squad. And their current weapon upgrade corresponds to:
- a capture group armed with submachine guns. Ability - capture a prisoner for interrogation or reconnaissance behind enemy lines.
- cover group armed with machine guns and 50-mm mortars. Ability - mortar strike.

Historical links and facts are good, but we also need unit that will be playable. No one want another bad designed, dead unit without good abilities.
If look on yours suggestion, how it will be work? Interrogation give you the same stupid "map marks" hacks as g-43 for grens? Or what? You want something usefull from 3CP 380MP unit.
50 mm mortars have very, very restricted usage in RA, they didn't had any devices for aiming, had very weak effect, very big scatter and most time didn't use at all. All soldiers and commanders hates it and always had huge amount of 50 mm shells in storage, because no one likes use them.
Any good operation about capture enemy soldiers include artillery, sappers with minesweepers and scissors for barbwire and 2 groups of soldiers (1-st group for capture 2-nd group for cover) with high amount of automatic weapons and many grenades. If we want use historical facts.
But we are in game and we need playable unit.

Eh. its fine as is.

Some ideas about improving:

With PPSH upgrade
1. Replace smoke nade on phosphorus (vet 1 ability). Remove share cooldown on grenades.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
3. Replace suppressive fire by tactic advantage or valley fire (like RE have) or "Suppressing Fire" (like paras with lmg have).

SU don't have any off-map smoke. At least will be one doctrine with it, even, if ability will be locked inside one unit with specific upgrade.

With DP-28 upgrade
1. Add button ability like guards have.

Historical links and facts are good, but we also need unit that will be playable. No one want another bad designed, dead unit without good abilities.
If look on yours suggestion, how it will be work? Interrogation give you the same stupid "map marks" hacks as g-43 for grens? Or what? You want something usefull from 3CP 380MP unit.
50 mm mortars have very, very restricted usage in RA, they didn't had any devices for aiming, had very weak effect, very big scatter and most time didn't use at all. All soldiers and commanders hates it and always had huge amount of 50 mm shells in storage, because no one likes use them.
Any good operation about capture enemy soldiers include artillery, sappers with minesweepers and scissors for barbwire and 2 groups of soldiers (1-st group for capture 2-nd group for cover) with high amount of automatic weapons and many grenades. If we want use historical facts.
But we are in game and we need playable unit.

The ability can always be changed: for example, highlight the contours of the infantry for a few seconds in the fog of war, capturing a sapper - show all mines on the map (if possible)
About mortars - 50-mm mortars were returned to the army in 1943 due to the large number of urban battles - compact and light they helped destroy the enemy on the roofs of buildings. So "mortar shelling" will always be useful - to destroy a machine gun or other units in buildings or bunkers.
Some types of troops continued to use weapons that were no longer used, for example: the 37 mm shovel- mortar was canceled in 1942 but the Soviet paratroopers continued to use it until the end of the war — they needed any firepower. The same thing with the scouts - they continued to use 50-mm mortars: because they relied only on their own strength, the 50-mm mortar was lightweight, compact, easy to carry and they were not given a 82-mm mortar.

What about falls, obers, stormtroopers?...

Read my post more carefully, Falls and Ober do not have smoke grenades they have WP grenades (that work the same way assault tommies grenades on separate CDs)and ST do not have HE they have incendiary grenade.

My point still stand the majority of unit with smoke and HE grenades have them on shared CD.

We are talking about a special squad here which must be able to hold its own. When units cheaper than air guards can get the smokes with no cool down sharing why can't they?
...

Again the majority of units that have smoke and HE grenades have them on shared CD. There is is simple they would be too effective vs HMG.

AB.G can holkd their own, their performance with LMGs is close to that of obers and the reason they are expensive is that they an infiltration unit so as ST and Inf.C pay premium for being able to spawn from ambient buildings.

The ability can always be changed: for example, highlight the contours of the infantry for a few seconds in the fog of war, capturing a sapper - show all mines on the map (if possible)
About mortars - 50-mm mortars were returned to the army in 1943 due to the large number of urban battles - compact and light they helped destroy the enemy on the roofs of buildings. So "mortar shelling" will always be useful - to destroy a machine gun or other units in buildings or bunkers.
Some types of troops continued to use weapons that were no longer used, for example: the 37 mm shovel- mortar was canceled in 1942 but the Soviet paratroopers continued to use it until the end of the war — they needed any firepower. The same thing with the scouts - they continued to use 50-mm mortars: because they relied only on their own strength, the 50-mm mortar was lightweight, compact, easy to carry and they were not given a 82-mm mortar.

Wow, thanks for info. But again, interrogation don't give you any in-combat bonuses. Shadows of enemy soldiers useless, mine marks useless, i have minesweeper engeneers for that. Interrogation will be usefull, if cons\penals will do that after got weapon crate. But not for high cost elite infantry.
Mortars theme. Only if you don't want make from paras some kind of ost artillery officer, with smoke barrage, very cheap artillery mortar strike and smg's for close combat. Almost strict copy, need only 2 unique abilities instead of recall arty strikes and inspiring.
This game have very, very weak relation with historical facts. Better to keep visual and make gameplay than try to make historical accurate unit.

Read my post more carefully, Falls and Ober do not have smoke grenades they have WP grenades (that work the same way assault tommies grenades on separate CDs)and ST do not have HE they have incendiary grenade.

It some how neglect fact that WP grenade block sight as smoke? In fact WP nade is smoke nade with ability to slower any infantry (even to your own units) and deal damage.

If you read carefull my suggestions:
With PPSH upgrade
1. Replace smoke nade on phosphorus (vet 1 ability). Remove share cooldown on grenades.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
3. Replace suppressive fire by tactic advantage or valley fire (like RE have) or "Suppressing Fire" (like paras with lmg have).

1 point - vet1 phosphorus nade. In vet 1 you can use frage and WP nade together.

AB.G can holkd their own, their performance with LMGs is close to that of obers and the reason they are expensive is that they an infiltration unit so as ST and Inf.C pay premium for being able to spawn from ambient buildings.

Infiltration unit without stealth...cool. ST and Inf.C have stealth and also could be spawn from any ambient building. I don't ask about 6 man 2 LMG with stealth, i ask about normal designed unit. You can compare them with USF paras and you will see, that USF have better design that this...infiltration unit. I prefer paradrop in any point of map, like falls or USF paras, for soviet paras neither current.
Obers have plenty of abilities. USF paras with LMG have 5 man, greande, suppresion fire and very far grenade range. Falls have stealth and the same abilities like obers. Soviet paras have 3 dp-28 and grenade...cool.

If it so hard to make 6 man soviet paras, make them 4 man like falls and give the same abilities (with 1 boosted dp-28 adn 2-nd could be upgraded when t4 done). Work done. Without Papa Faterland, but better than current state.

It some how neglect fact that WP grenade block sight as smoke? ...

It has been argued that Soviet are in disadvantage because the smoke grenade and HE of AB.G and Shock Troops share CD. I have simply pointed that this applies to most units.

WP greandes and HE should also share CD imo but currently they do not for most units.

Infiltration unit without stealth...cool. ST and Inf.C have stealth and also could be spawn from any ambient building. I don't ask about 6 man 2 LMG with stealth, i ask about normal designed unit. You can compare them with USF paras and you will see, that USF have better design that this...infiltration unit. I prefer paradrop in any point of map, like falls or USF paras, for soviet paras neither current.

ST/Inf.C spawn handicapped, ST with K98 and Inf.C with 3 member AB.G is a unit that spawns with highest DPS.

Paras are not an infiltration unit and neither is Fall, they are airdropped units and they are vulnerable during the drop.

Are the AB.G badly designed? Yes they are but not for the reason you mention and they can hold their own just fine.

ST/Inf.C spawn handicapped, ST with K98 and Inf.C with 3 member AB.G is a unit that spawns with highest DPS.

Paras are not an infiltration unit and neither is Fall, they are airdropped units and they are vulnerable during the drop.

Are the AB.G badly designed? Yes they are but not for the reason you mention and they can hold their own just fine.

Some ideas about improving:

With PPSH upgrade
1. Replace smoke nade on phosphorus (vet 1 ability). Remove share cooldown on grenades.
2. Replace Il-2 strafe to Il-2 smoke barrage, like OKW have.
3. Replace suppressive fire by tactic advantage or valley fire (like RE have) or "Suppressing Fire" (like paras with lmg have).

SU don't have any off-map smoke. At least will be one doctrine with it, even, if ability will be locked inside one unit with specific upgrade.

With DP-28 upgrade
1. Add button ability like guards have.

These changes could reflect they high cost and also give more tactic decisions. With close range PPSH you got smoke and ability that help them in close-combat. With dp-28 you got long-range, but also could help your army to deal with armor units due button ability, this also will help for player use plane strike.
Synergy with commander in both variants and synergy with your army as well.

With DP-28 upgrade
1. Add button ability like guards have.

Rocket strafes aren’t broken enough, we need cheap immobilizing from distance to make them even more lethal.