Langreskaya...

...should be taken out of maprotation until it has been properly rebalanced.

Seriously what was Relic thinking when they released the map like this? It's totally unbalanced, north is almost guaranteed to lose. I watched quite some SNF qualifier games on that map now and it's just boring to watch cause the north has pretty much no chance unless south totally fucks up.

Take it out and REBALANCE Relic. Please!

for some reason whoever plays in the 1 and 2 positions has to deal with some brutal cutoffs ( applies for kholodny, langres and kharkov)

and with the way buildings are currently its even easier to perform the semoisky pin on your opponent which is exacerbated by not having an adjacent high fuel like in coh1

overall I'm not a big fan of the current maps and I think they need another look at. hopefully when the world builder is out this will rectify our map problem

WhiteFlash and I were talking to Eagleheart about this last night. Gears are moving to make adjustments to those cutoff points and the covers that surround them.

That sounds like music to my ears Ami, hope they'll get it fixed soon!

for some reason whoever plays in the 1 and 2 positions has to deal with some brutal cutoffs ( applies for kholodny, langres and kharkov)

Noticed that too. I'm glad that Relic is aware of the issue and I hope for a soon solution.

As long as the points on every map are essentially all identical, there are going to be extensive balance issues that will screw with every map's design and functionality. There are no low, medium, or high points, and except for one muni and one fuel point, all territory produces both munitions and fuel.

One of the crucially balanced features of Langres, Langreskaya's vCoH predecessor, was that the fuel and munitions points were distributed rather unevenly. The right side had two +10 fuels and two +10 munis, all of which were easily cut off for either team (the classic cutoff that still exists, and then southward near the haystacks point to cut off the south.) The left side? One +10 fuel and a +16 munitions. The territory battles that ensued were based on these positions as well. Each team could easily split the right side of the map territory-wise as the resources were distributed close to each player's base beyond the cutoffs. Each could grab a fuel point while the battle would mainly rage over holding the leftmost munitions and fuel point. Or the map would be split down the middle road, and a fuel point on the right side would be the target of harassment.

Essentially, one of the key aspects of Langres that made it an interesting and popular map was because there were three medium fuel points that could constantly be contested territory or in threat of cutoff, as opposed to the standard two or even one section of a map with actual strategic value. The same map could be played rather dynamically, keeping it from feeling stale and cookie cutter. (The map also downplayed the advantages and disadvantages of the British and Panzer Elite factions respectively as well, but that's a whole other bag of worms.)

In the same vein of reasoning Semois, for example, was popular because it was the only map to feature an easily accessible +10 fuel for both sides, with the majority of the contested territory being over munitions. Only two low +5 fuel points existed on the map, providing the targets for cutoff/getting the slight edge of a slim fuel advantage. It was a map where you knew you could usually only slow your opponents fuel income, not shut it down like on other maps. I mean, you could always strategically pin the other player down in their base to totally deny map control, but rarely could you deny that +10 fuel.

My point being: a lot of issues have to deal with the fact that the way map points are set up: it's less about WHAT points you hold, and more about how many of them you hold. I find it interesting that Langreskaya is one of the few maps where the resource points actually correlate with strategic points on the map (also probably due to its vCoH origins).

Simple way to fix Langreskaya:
Remove the cutoff point for the Northern player that basically cuts off 80% of the map for him.

So what do you guys think of the newly reworked Langreskaya?

I think it's fine. The north player is easier to cut-off, but I have found that it's harder to hold the middle VP when you are south. You get a bit of a trade of: North is more vulnerable in the early game, and south has more trouble in the lategame.

Basically most of these maps are like that. So, a good solution is re editing these maps and also have a map contest!

will the langreskaya map that whiteflash was editing for snf be in the map rotation?

It's in the rotation now!

Half of the others maps have this problem too...

So what do you guys think of the newly reworked Langreskaya?

Personally I think the changes were way too subtle, and the map is still heavy south favored.

Personally I think the changes were way too subtle, and the map is still heavy south favored.

It might be slightly south favored (especially for germans in south, they have a much easier time there than in north), but more than that the map is heavily soviet favored (the summer version, winter is a bit of a question mark). Soviet snipers and soviet T4 reign so supreme on this map it ain't one bit funny, and script/shock flanks are pretty much impossible to avoid due to the openness of it as well.

lots of ppl dont know how to play this map, i will show u sometimes in my map tutorial ...

but i am doing exams so pretty busy atm...

Generally yes because of LOS and travel time to cut-off.

Can sneak around to northern cutoff, to get to south cutoff you have to go through the break in the hedge or all the way around past the buildings and avoid stepping on the ammo point so the decap doesn't start. This is sort of balanced by the better open fields of fire north has I think, but still not ideal..

lots of ppl dont know how to play this map, i will show u sometimes in my map tutorial ...

Well I got a replay right here where I beat u in 5 minutes from south

Basically the map still sucks and it needs a major change.