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Thoughts on World Championship 2019 so far?

10 Nov 2019, 14:00 PM
#61
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 857 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2019, 13:55 PMLago

If tournament results are any indication, the Balance Team has done an incredibly good job on making a balanced and strategically diverse Ostheer.


Thats where i agree. Ostheer is in a really good spot and dont need changes imo. Its more about tuning down USF than making Ost better.
10 Nov 2019, 14:22 PM
#62
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

Luvnest sov just rekt vonivan wehr in game 1.

Idk about Wehr, but players are definitely going with call in infantry, as earlier poster mentioned about wehr stock units not showing promise in early game, in wc19 still

Luvnest went with the regular penal flame clown car t70. Granted von got unlucky with a mine killing his ht pgren squad. Still he has struggled to get map control and resources.
10 Nov 2019, 14:32 PM
#63
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

Any fans of 200manpower jeep? (With crew, repair, crits, capping, long range mg, mark target, ability to crew with infantry, muni free rocket engine) None of the fanboys has seen it somewhere? Perfectly balanced. Nothing special about a standard t0 unit. Just ok...

... and axis fanboys always just complain.
10 Nov 2019, 15:56 PM
#64
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

3 games between von and luvnest, all wins come from allies faction....

Damn the last game IS2 OP armor and self repair. Von had a good start with 5 man Wehr choice, but got overpowered by Sov tanks...I mean Panther is so expensive to counter IS2. And the 5 man doc lacks a heavy armor..

The stugs Von built simply lack penetration. Basically everything i fear and said before.. o_O
10 Nov 2019, 16:06 PM
#65
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2019, 15:56 PMmrgame2
I mean Panther is so expensive to counter IS2


Do elaborate how a 185 fuel vehicle is expensive compared to a 230 fuel vehicle.
10 Nov 2019, 16:17 PM
#66
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794



Do elaborate how a 185 fuel vehicle is expensive compared to a 230 fuel vehicle.


Sorry i mean compare to calling out a SU85. As seen Von had to go panic stug to hold and it snow balls.

Wow the game3 between Jove and Devm...panther bouncing pershing at max range and even med range retreating.

And that bazooka, that crazy range and rng penning panther from front. While shrek is good, i say the zooks are pretty good as weell, another unit under played vs shrek, that i see often.

And also the usf mortar. I like so many people under played it. But boy, it did well for Jove usf...
10 Nov 2019, 16:30 PM
#67
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2019, 15:56 PMmrgame2
Von had a good start with 5 man Wehr choice, but got overpowered by Sov tanks...


Von had the game won, then threw it away by going Pwerfer. Had he gone StuGG&Ostwin or Brummbar and Pak he’d have won easily.

Please stop making balance complaints when you can’t even understand what you’re looking at.
10 Nov 2019, 16:43 PM
#68
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351



Von had the game won, then threw it away by going Pwerfer. Had he gone StuGG&Ostwin or Brummbar and Pak he’d have won easily.

Please stop making balance complaints when you can’t even understand what you’re looking at.


Agreed. Big mistake on his part.

Building wehrfers and generally going tier 4 was his mistake. Backteching to paks with resources spent on anything from tier 3 would have sealed the deal.

But his early game was fantastic :)

Balancewise it confirms Imperial Dane's rants tbh about tier 4 being just overpriced and not giving much in return.
10 Nov 2019, 16:51 PM
#69
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1

The moment Von went T4 he lost his momentum because it alleviated the pressure on Luvnest. You could see that was the point where Luvnest came back.

And that's precisely what Dane and others have been saying about T4. For what it costs you it just doesn't offer enough. Instead it slows down your pressure and gives your opponent the chance to come back.
ddd
10 Nov 2019, 17:08 PM
#70
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

he went t4 for pwerfer and then spammed stugs vs is2 lol.
10 Nov 2019, 17:11 PM
#71
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

Tbf his wafer did a good job and worth the investment.

He probably saw the 7 man squad coming. Ostwind could be good to keep up pressure, but the snares and Zis in this open map. And the danger of IS2 coming, he needed T4 up. He had to make a choice. His early lead probably tells him to make the wafer first, to further bleed mp, before IS2 comes. And hopefully Panther can be build asap.

But too bad, playing Wehr, the T4 is too cost inefficient, he had to back build stugs.

I also thought he could get a pak instead of his last stug. But remember the IS2 is mobile and heavily armor, pak may not even save him.
10 Nov 2019, 17:22 PM
#72
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2019, 17:11 PMmrgame2
Tbf his wafer did a good job and worth the investment.


Yeah those 3 kills in the first 6 mins were def worth the investment lol
10 Nov 2019, 17:29 PM
#73
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1

Stormjäger makes a good point. At the end the Werfer was worth it, but in that critical phase where Luvnest came back, it didn't do anything.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2019, 17:08 PMddd
he went t4 for pwerfer and then spammed stugs vs is2 lol.


Those Stugs would have killed the IS2 had VonIvan not backed out and then re-engaged. And even then it was RNG more than anything else that saved the IS2.

10 Nov 2019, 17:42 PM
#74
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

I guess we all agree on all the above = ostheer ananlysed

Now time for Soviets:

VonIvan out of jail card was crew repairs on his tanks. This is how he saved his IS in the corner (There was a ZIS next to VonIvan's troops. Had he captured it...), and managed to function without engies.

Another thing was backing up his tanks with ZIS guns and recrewing them efficiently (hence werfers), which VonIvan didn't do to support his tanks (not even in the form of shrecked grens).

Conscripts running around are also very effective, especially together with their abilities to build sandbags and hoorah, and chep reinforcement cost.

I guess on top of that was his knowledge from radio intercept.

10 Nov 2019, 17:43 PM
#75
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

It is hard to say if the stugs could kill IS2 since luvnest had back out his IS2 to face its frontal armor. Its gun is still functional and within range

The rng will not favor stug low pen if continue to move in, imo thats why von back out his low health stugs. At least i would.

Now if it was SU85 vs Tiger, im sure we will all chase till the end..
10 Nov 2019, 18:34 PM
#76
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

Stug vs IS-2 is like trying to kill a Tiger with SU76s. You can do it, and the stug will be more successful than the su76, but there are better tools for the job.
10 Nov 2019, 18:48 PM
#77
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Just slightly revamp T3/T4 cost:

T3 tech: 105 fuel
T3 building: 0 fuel
T4 tech: 35 fuel
T4 building: 0 fuel

Going straight for T3 would cost the same as now, as would going straight to T4, but going for T3 first then T4 would be slightly more affordable. This would make T3 into T4 more affordable in 1v1, but keep the same balance in 2v2 (where T3 is often skipped anyway).

Some doctrinal options might need their timing/performance adjusted, like Stug E and Puma.

10 Nov 2019, 18:49 PM
#78
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

Stug vs IS-2 is like trying to kill a Tiger with SU76s. You can do it, and the stug will be more successful than the su76, but there are better tools for the job.


True.
Yet they should be in tier 4 and they are not. Now it is only call ins (tiger) you could rely on plus tier 3.
10 Nov 2019, 18:52 PM
#79
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

Just slightly revamp T3/T4 cost:

T3 tech: 105 fuel
T3 building: 0 fuel
T4 tech: 35 fuel
T4 building: 0 fuel

Going straight for T3 would cost the same as now, as would going straight to T4, but going for T3 first then T4 would be slightly more affordable. This would make T3 into T4 more affordable in 1v1, but keep the same balance in 2v2 (where T3 is often skipped).

Some doctrinal options would need their timing/performance adjusted, like Stug E and Puma.



I'd rather reduce the cost of the panther and brumbar. But Your option would also make sense - I just feel that ppl seeing no fuel for something Wehr gets might go really wild.
10 Nov 2019, 18:58 PM
#80
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3



I'd rather reduce the cost of the panther and brumbar. But Your option would also make sense - I just feel that ppl seeing no fuel for something Wehr gets might go really wild.


Current teching situation:

T3 = 90 + 15 = 105 fuel
T4 = 90 + 25 + 25 = 140 fuel
T3 building into T4 = 90 + 15 + 25 + 25 = 155 fuel

New teching situation:

T3 = 105 + 0 = 105 fuel
T4 = 105 + 35 + 0 = 140 fuel
T3 building into T4 = 105 + 0 + 35 + 0 = 140 fuel (but of course more manpower cost for teching)

You already pay a pretty steep price premium for T4 units, so imo you shouldn't need to pay a huge tech cost on top of that. Consider the first Panther after constructing T3 costs 690 manpower and 235 fuel initially with no side benefits for the tech.

T4 is balanced in team games, but underpowered in 1v1. This would be a safe solution.
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