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Thread: What the .... is up with the germans ?1 Apr 2014, 20:18 PM Jump back to quoted post1 Apr 2014, 19:07 PMBrick Top Cardboard, why is it silly for a cheap infatry thrown AT weapon to sometimes not penetrate the frontal armour of whats basically a medium tank. In the realms of the game at least, thats sensible. Besides, in real life, even shells would bounce off frontal tank armour.. so I dont see a problem? And assault guns like SU85 or Stug would have most of their armour up front. Generally tank destroyers had decent frontal armour. Is it wrong that panzerfausts doesn't penetrate SU-85 frontally sometimes, maybe. Is it wrong that AT nades frequently fail to damage a Panthers engine from the rear (sometimes bounces, seems impossible once it has vet) I would say so. I have experienced similiar things with Tigers as well. Russians lack (imo) decent AT aside from the SU-85 that is quite slow and expensive. Their current AT consists of: AT Nades - I would say can be unreliable especially if the German uses smoke or blitzkrieg, can be a pain to hit Guards - Don't do much damage to tanks, button is useful but its very expensive to use (100 + 40 each button, especially when you can blitz / smoke of out it). Doctrinal Zis - Seems ok but can be unreliable against the front of Panthers and Tigers. Its vet ability is pretty useful and the barrage is really nice so that does make up for it SU-76 - Barrage is nice, isn't really useful on anything above a Panzer 4 imo. Also lacks health and armour so it can die very easily / fast. SU-85 - Pretty decent at AT, has a rapid fire rate once vetted, sometimes has penetration issues vs Tigers & Panthers. It is quite slow and dies very easily to shrecks or a blitzing tank ISU-152 - Great AI damage, does well vs tanks including crew shocks but its very slow and seems prone to flanking a lot. Also expensive. Doctrinal T-34/76 - Doesn't do well vs Tanks, has penetration problems and pathing issues. Has ram (although I would prefer that this was removed and given something else, a boost perhaps) T34/85 - Fares much better vs tanks but is doctrinal and 2 of them still can lose to a tiger. Doctrinal IS-2 - Great AI, does OK vs tanks but is also expensive and will usually lose to a tiger unless given lots of micro or RNG loves you. Doctrinal KV-1 - Good for soaking damage, not good vs most armour because it can't flank well but still has the same gun as the T34/76. Doctrinal KV-2 - Awesome AI, again can damage tanks but also slow and doctrinal Germans have: Panzerfaust - More penetration than AT nades, doesnt require a specific upgrade, can have issues vs IS-2 / KV-1 (maybe others?) Panzershrecks - Expensive but do lots of damage to everything soviet has. Still ok vs infantry as well. Pak 40 - Does ok damage to most things I believe (has penetration problems vs IS-2 / KV-1). Vet ability is imo fantastic, stunning enemy armour can give you enough time to kill it with appropriate support. Pak 43 - Static and has to be turned, requiring attention to be used well, great range and high damage / penetration. Doctrinal Stug - Decent price, has good front armour and speed. Upgrable to an MG, improving its AI. Decent vet ability Panzer IV - Fast and mobile (especially with blitzkrieg). Decent gun and armour, can be upgraded with an MG. Excellent vet ability Brumbar - Decent frontal armour, seems to be to do well with T34/76 as well as having decent AI. Panther - Great armour, gun and speed. Poor AI but can be upgraded with an MG to help. Decent vet ability. Tiger - Expensive but has overall good armour and a decent gun. AI isnt near what an IS-2 can do but still resonable. Decent vs tanks, can upgrade to have an MG. Decent vet ability Tiger Ace - Really expensive and I think this is pretty balanced (aside from the stun, bit unfair). Decent armour, decent gun. Decent abilities. Doctrinal Elephant - Expensive and slow. Has a great gun, very good frontal armour. Decent side / rear armour. I find sometimes T-34/76 / 85 cannot penetrate it from the side / rear. Doctrinal Soviets have 10 AT options, although 6 are doctrinal. Germans have 10, 4 are doctrinal. Soviets do get mark target but it is expensive. Germans get smoke and view range upgrades from some doctrines. If we compare to USA: Stickies - Similiar to AT nades I think, don't remember having penetration issues but its been awhile Rangers - Comes with AT, penetration issues against fronts of tigers / panthers but fine vs others. Had fire up. Could upgrade to have decent AI (imo much better than the guards AI while having armour as well) Airbourne - Accurate fast firing weapons, although lacking penetration. Had fire up and extra utility (deployment and satchels). I would say OK AI. 57MM - Pretty decent against tanks. AP round ability was really good (too good?) Shermans - Standard gun was poor, upgrade was reasonable but it was decent at AI. M10 / Hellcat - Cheap and fast, easy to flank with and was good at infantry crushing (might have been m10 only? I forget) Pershing - Expensive but a decent all rounder Now to me, although USA had less choices, I think it overall had stronger choices and the non doctrinal ones were better. What are peoples thoughts? Have I been accurate with what I wrote or am I really wrong on something? I think that the T-34/85 should be upgradable from HQ / T3 or something. Remove Ram (I think we all hate it, it relies on rng and ruins your tank). Instead replace it with a boost of some kind, similar to blitzkrieg maybe since due to its lack of penetration, it is meant to flank. I feel blitzkrieg either needs removing or changing in some way (engine overheats or maybe a fuel drop for a period of time) because its too easy for German armour to get out of trouble, especially when it can reverse faster backwards than a T34 can ram going forwards. Give Soviets better AT infantry. I would much rather pay 120muni for 2 shrecks than 100 muni + 40 to use button which can be escaped from very easily. As soviets if you go T1 and don't pick a guard / partisans doctrine you are without AT for a long time. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: game performance Really bad1 Apr 2014, 19:23 PM I run the game at 1920 x 1200. With a 2600k @ 4.7Ghz, 8GB of ram and a 6970 overclocked to 900 / 1400 if my memory is right (previous card) with the following settings: Gameplay Resolution: 100% Image Quality: Higher Anti Aliasing: Low V-sync: Off Texture Detail: High or Higher Snow Detail: Low Physics: Low I was getting normal minimums of 50 fps (sometimes dropping to 30/40 during blizzards and when lots of stuff was going on), maximums of 80 - 90 and averages of around 60 - 70. I used afterburner to log the fps and just looked at the results, didnt work them out or anything. The ingame benchark used to record really crap fps but the game played fine. I have since moved to a 290x and even at stock gives me silly fps (normally over 100 in 2v2 with most settings at max). I will try to record my fps somewhen soon to see what the average is. It might be worth downloading afterburner and using it to log frame rates then dump them into excel to see what your average actually is. In: COH2 Bugs
Thread: T34/76 / Soviet Armour Pathing Issues31 Mar 2014, 18:21 PM Has anyone noticed the horrible paths that soviet vehicles take? I've always known it was a bit dodgy but since playing more games as Germans and seeing how the PzIV paths so much better. Has anyone else noticed this? I was playing a game earlier on Moscow winter as North side. I had a Tiger tank and a captured T34/76. I had them both selected (they were almost right next to each other) and clicked to move. The tiger moves forward as you would expect but the T34/76 turns around and decides to reverse to the spot, exposing its rear armour. Unfortunately I didn't save the reply and don't have any to hand. I will try to get some examples and upload them but this seems to happen quite a lot. I've found that the SU-85 seem to suffer as well, but don't notice it very much as its more of a static vehicle. Anyone else had this issue? In: COH2 Bugs
Thread: What the .... is up with the germans ?31 Mar 2014, 07:19 AM SSHeini mind posting your steam profile id? I'm assuming you have a decent amount of games with both factions since you are commenting on balance. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: What the .... is up with the germans ?31 Mar 2014, 00:42 AM Jump back to quoted post31 Mar 2014, 00:19 AMAurgelwulf What if you pop a smoke grenade and a sturmovik crashes into the ground killing all of your shocktroopers? What if you oorah right into the set of the 1990 failed sitcom 'Heil Honey I'm Home' and are forever labelled as an anti-semite for your part in the debacle? You can list worst case scenarios until your fingers bleed, doesen't change the fact that closing in effectively and forcing grenadiers out of cover will usually give you the advantge. You can write all the silly things you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you have no clue about the balance of Soviets because you do not play them. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: What the .... is up with the germans ?31 Mar 2014, 00:02 AM Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2014, 23:55 PMAurgelwulf I'm not going to make a bloated reply to tell you things you already know, at least I hope you already know and this is just some amateur attempt to get everyone to drink the kool-aid. Your text is full of hyperbolic nonsense such as the Panther being an anti-infantry platform or Penal Troops easily beaten at range. Just nonsense. Do grenadiers at long range, in cover, with a rifle nade, win against almost all soviet infantry (guards are a tough nut to crack), yes. Thats only because the soviet player is, for some reason, playing exactly to the grenadiers strengths - thats why shocks have smoke nades, why conscripts/penals have oorah, so they can get close and fight the battle on their terms. Thats it, thats all I should need to say. Fight grenadiers at range with a unit that should fight close up and you will lose, obvious if you think about it for more than one second. Smoke grenades on shocks can work, but what happens when the german player sees this and just runs backwards. As soon as you emerge from smoke, your back to square one. Penals don't get oorah until they have vet so what do you do until then. Even with conscripts having it, you will more often than not lose most of your health while trying to get in cover, due to the nature of this patch and the changes it has brought in. Once again being a German only player has blinded you to the truth. If you bothered to play soviets you would know that it isn't possible to do what you have written. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Making Soviets more Soviety30 Mar 2014, 16:41 PM So because some people can beat grens it means they are balanced? Using squad wipe is not a good enough reason because soviets have the same problem and grens don't get squad wiped constantly. You don't play soviets so really cannot comment because you have no idea idea what its like playing vs Germany. Go and play a load of games as Soviet and see if you still believe that 480mp vs 240mp is balanced. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: What the .... is up with the germans ?30 Mar 2014, 15:02 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2014, 14:56 PMFrikadelleXXL Ok, let's discuss this. Flanking + ooohrah: Of course it is a good idea, but let's say you try to flank an MG in this patch. You oorah from the side, but the problem kicks in now: Usually, there are some Grens protecting the MG. While you try to reach your goal, taking out the MG, your units get shredded by Grens. So you need a huge number of units to take care of let's say 1 MG and 2 Grens. I don't think this is okay, because sovjet infantry costs nearly as many MP as the german infantry. Smoke grenades + Mortars: Actually a good idea. Already tried this out but if you do not have a mortar, you need shock troops what makes you vulnerable to AC or even halftrack / flamer half track. Also it costs munition to use it. So I have to pay munition just to get in range in order to POTENTIALLY win the fight? German will use riflenade and often kills 4 man in your squad... If you have a mortar, you often get hardcountered (I speak of 2vs2) by some Mortar Half Track. This is even deadlier on maps like Crossing in the Woods, where static gameplay dominates the game flow. Partisans: Haven't tried this out yet, but I will. But maybe the commander does not offer enough stuff (except the 152mm arty) to sustain in late game? Thing is, why should Soviets be forced into using doctrinal units to counter standard German units. Having to use shocks or partisans to take out an mg isn't balanced in any way. Which is one of the biggest problems in this game. Soviets are more often than not forced into doctrinal choices to counter german standard units, where as they are mostly free to pick whichever doctrine they want because their core units do all the work. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Making Soviets more Soviety30 Mar 2014, 14:56 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2014, 14:31 PMAurgelwulf No, it's not beside the point. The grens have four man squads, they get wiped significantly more than their Russian counterparts and if Peter wants to run that statement by his data analysts he'd see it was right. The manpower hit from losing a gren squad can swing games into the soviet players favour so it's perfectly right that the squad has something extra to make up for that. What do you mean something extra? They already have something extra. They have much better dps, their AT nade is so much more useful than molotov (and you don't need to specifically research it). Panzerfaust also is the same, you don't need to specifically research it. It's vet 1 ability is also more useful than the conscripts. Then they also get an LMG42 upgrade that increases their dps a fair amount, especially at range. Conscripts can get PPSH via a doctrine (yours is free, built into the core game) but it ruins their dps at anything other than close range..What more do you want? The nature of conscripts and many soviet troops is that you need to be in close to have any dps advantage but you are now punished by doing that because of the patch. Maybe if you played soviets even once instead of whoring over Germany, you might actually understand. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Making Soviets more Soviety30 Mar 2014, 13:48 PM Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2014, 11:52 AMAurgelwulf Cons don't need to be even with grens. Squad wipes for grens have only gotten worse since the patch, a problem soviet players don't have to deal with on nearly the same level. Cons vs Grens is balanced. Because squad wipes happen 24/7...... Russians do have squad wipe problems (mainly from mortars and brumbars) but that is beside the point. Many people including from Relic have said you need 2 conscripts for every one gren. That in it self is fine, but then why do 2 conscripts cost 480mp vs the 240 for the grens. I (and I guess many others) are fine with conscripts being inferior to Grens but the price needs to reflect that. In: COH2 Balance