Suppression weapons will be the bane of this commander. The increased manpower wont cover consistantly losing squads. I could see getting a mortar for it's smoke rounds so you can free your conscripts before they die.
To be honest, I'm more worried about this commander being UP the OP.
Like i said, it will be a sort of defensive commander that works for urban maps with lots of buildings. Just pop all your conscripts into buildings. |
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well, I hope relic learned their lesson and it won't be tiger ace all over again.
However, this doctrine sounds cool. What i think it will be is a sort of defensive doctrine. Since attacking with it would be very risky, since a surpessed con squad means wiped cons squad i can see this commander basically stuffing your conscripts in buildings and just sending more and more and more of them.
Againts this commander, bunkers would work very well i think.
Also, the free commanders are still the best ones. |
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honestly, the commander is fine. The problem is that G43s right now are simply too strong. Rest of the doctrine is fine tho.
(Maybe tiger ace needs to be pushed back a little, because of the increased teching costs). |
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it's not that CPs need to be increased, the rate at which Cps go up needs to be decreased by 20%-30% percent. |
If you are getting fausted with your ISU152 enough that you need conscript repair of all things with it, you are doing something horribly wrong with it. It doesn't have the health or armor (compared to price, that is) to be in situations that risky that often, and you should be primarily aiming at any closeby grens and thus stopping fausts anyway because it's not that effective as antitank (atleast without mark) and has very bad accuracy long range.
Shocks are bad because anything, literally anything, of similar cost from the germans counters them. Grens? Check, two grens beat shocks hard even without weapon upgrades. Single LMG gren beats them. 1 PG beats them at any range. 2 pios beat them. Assgrens are 50:50 at beating them if fight starts from long range because they do damage from there and shocks don't. Then you factor in the new 222 and shocks are just bleeding manpower all day long.
And to top the fact that shocks get countered by any of these, their damage on the move & damage above range 10 (less than molotov throw) is so bad that they will never kill anything that retreats. So even with a perfect flank, as long as your opponent just hits the retreat button instead of staying around, shocks will do absolutely no MP damage. All they're good for is the nades...and guard nades are better.
We seem do be playing two different games. In my game, shocks obliterate pgs, unless the fight starts from long range, in which case i will throw a smoke grenade to cover my approach. 2 grens, unless you just charge mindlessly, will get forced away, i guess you must be trying the old just run up with your shocks without using cover strat. It doesn't work anymore. Rangers in Vcoh also couldn't do that.
ISU-152 does get fausted often, because you know, after saving up for a 260+ fuel tank, you inevitably will have lost atleast some map control, in which case you will need to attack. And since theres alot of houses/ trees that block line of sight, very often an ISU-152 can indeed get fausted, or sometimes grens can just walk right in front of it and faust because ISU-152 missed.
Okay,maybe my isu-152 won't get fausted often. But i'd much rather have a ISU-152 with a functioning engine rather than an ISU-152 with a demaged engine but with mark vehicle againt's a blitzing P IV.
Then again discussing ISU-152 is pointless since ISU-152 in its own right now is a horrible vehicle, it's not very good for anything at all. I prefer an IS-2 which costs less in every single situation.
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Even if you removed riflenades from the game, you are still sacrificing all your commander abilities for 1. A super bad ZIS for 200mp 2. An expensive maxim that has the ability to kill T2 vehicles if your opponent drives straight down the firing cone and you saw it coming beforehand 3. 120mm and 4. A really bad version of smines. With the drop in T2 cost these units are worse than ever, and they never were any good after the initial halving of the dshk dps.
Rapid conscription is extremely gimmicky and pretty much never worth using over any other kind of munition ability. Hit the dirt is just yellow cover that is asking for a tank squish or riflenade. ppsh are a weapon you're better off without. All this really leaves is incendiary barrage (available in plenty of other commanders) and conscript repair (ditto).
Even before when ppsh was still useful and by extension hit the dirt was a bit better, this doctrine still didn't offer anything over the more versatile ppsh doctrines that gave you a unit call-in.
Because they are, sorry. Shocks are the most worthless unit in the game for cost right now. But let's ignore that and pretend they're useful: Mark target is the single most powerful antitank ability soviets get. On the other hand armored detection is among the worst commander abilities in the game, it's just a waste of muni that does nothing you couldn't do by just listening to game sounds, looking at the graphics in the fog or just using the 3 times cheaper and twice as effective tracking on several soviet units at veterancy 1. So basically it's shocks+conscript repair vs guards+mark target+AT gun camo (arguably fairly useless). There is just no contest if you ask me, just mark target alone is better than shocks+conscript repair combined, then you get guards on top of that.
No, their health does in fact make them useless. A tank trap that dies to two shots from a tank isn't useful in the least. Sector artillery is the easiest to dodge artillery in the game, and is extremely map specific to boot. Trenches are arguably better right now when conscripts are so weak that molotovs are rarer. Of course there is actually no reason to make them because soviets have a far easier time to get stuff out of them than germans so they're just a risk. And hull down is the least used german commander ability period, and mostly for good reason (while the bonuses are ok, it just doesn't fit any gameplay situation you realistically find yourself in)
Sector artillery doesn't shut down any sectors, as long as your units are constantly moving and don't have another unit following them in the case of infantry (you can have two or even three vehicles trailing each other because they're much faster), sector artillery will in fact never hit a thing. It has no movement prediction whatsoever.
Why are shocks bad? I use them often and with great sucess, they are not mindless units that you use to charge, instead they are very lethal flanking units. Conscript repairs is a good ability for your ISU-152, because a fausted ISU-152 is a dead ISU-152, and with conscript repair kit, you can make sure that your ISU-152 is always operational.
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They suit playstyles that don't suit winning.
There's no reason to go for German Defense doctrine over any other pak43 doctrine, all of them are better than this one.
There's no reason to go for Shock Motor Heavy, Mechanized Support is plain better as an isu doctrine.
There's fairly little reason to go for Anti-infantry tactics or Terror, Shock rifle offers the important bits with the versatility of the IS2.
There's no reason to go conscript support, all other ppsh doctrines offer more useful things
While other doctrines don't offer the same choices, Soviet Defensive has no reason to exist in the current balance because it wastes commander abilities to offer you a bunch of badly performing units with identical roles to T2 ones. Urban Defense is a one trick pony with the FHQ, and that again has no real place in the current gameplay.
Overall the most problematic commanders are definitely on the soviet side, german commanders are a lot better because germans have a better base unit selection, though it's very easy to split them into tiers of usefulness regardless.
Those opinions are very subjective, yes soviet community doc might not be good, but not because that it's bad, it's just that rifle grenades right now are crazy. Conscript support? Why is it bad? It gives your conscripts alot of versatility. Shock motor heavy vs mechanized support? Why are shocks troops bad? That is a very subjective opinion on whether someone prefers shock troops or gaurds. On a close range map like stalingrad, i would much rather choose shock troops over gaurds. Mark vehicle? Well since the isu-152 is getting at buff next patch my guess is that the mark vehicle is sort of going to be overkill next patch, the ISU-152 is another thing. It not being viable is going to be addressed in the next patch. Right now the ISU-152 is worse in anti tank than the IS-2 for some reason...
Why is german defensive doc bad? Tank traps have low health, but that still doesn't make them useless, for example festung armor has a pak 43, and has railway arty instead of sector arty, in my opinion,sector arty is way better, since it basically shuts down an entire sector for a minute. |
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honestly,you guys seem to be rather simple minded. Just because a commander is not used does not mean its bad.
I can't tell you one single commander except german infantry or NKVD that is bad.
They simply suit different play styles. |
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shock army is still the most fun commander for me. 2x ppsh and shocks, the rest of the conscripts keep their mosins,it's pretty effective on all maps.
On maps like stalingrad i go all out and upgrade all my cons with ppsh |
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all i hope to get is
1. An isu-152 buff. Seriously.
2. T-34 flanking speed or something else to make it a viable flanking tank. I mean im not saying that t-34 is bad now. It's just that the t-34 right now is either A- protector of your at GUNS or B : If you went T1 T3 battering ram. It's good for that role, but its just not that fun using it in such a way. |
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