The video shows that in when both Volks and Penal are in green cover with 0 vet and 0 upgrades, with the volks losing 5 men and the Penal losing one, shouldn't the Penal be only 50 mp (25%) more effective than the volk?
Furthermore Volks vet 5 loses to penal vet 3 in green cover. What's the point of Volks (and OKW) if their vet 5 bonuses can't compete with the vet 3 bonuses of other infantry? OKWs vet 5 was supposed to be 1.25 as effective as comparable allied units. Somehow this is no longer the case.
Also in the Obers test, vet 0 Obers vs vet 0 Penal, the obers lost 2 and the Penal lost 6. If you can justify the penal vs volk/gren performance due to a 50 MP difference, why isnt the 100 MP difference that obers have over Penals seems to not have a similar performance differential?
Idk. Like I said, I saw only Grens part casue my connection forbids me watching videos and I don't have time for endless buffering.
upgradable anti tank rifles? AT satchel, molotov, satchel charge, flame thrower. I think minelaying ability is the only tool thats missing for a true ubermensch squad.
Also grenadiers barely wins at long range, it could go either way.. they get totally wrecked at medium and close range also flamethrower makes sure they can never use garrisons or heavy cover. Also penals have good moving accuracy so they are good assault troops, grenadiers lose ALL their dps if they so much as move an inch.
I don't consider upgrades as a utility. There were plenty talks about Cons utility, yet they don't have any upgrade. AT satchel is just a fancy flavour. It's not that useful. Charge is just for blowing buildings and nothing more.
The 300MP argument doesn't say much since grenadier also have a 60 muni weapon upgrade which evens it out... NOT only that but penals have insanely more utility than grenadiers, penals are like from a 80's action movie.
finally grenadiers are 4 man meaning lategame you will lose the vet3 squad to a mortar hit + quick tank followup shot. Frustrating stuff a 6 man squad don't have to deal with.
Emmmmm...What utility? Snare? Grenade? Making bunkers?
LMG Grens wins at long range with Penals and it's getting in Penals' favour when the distance is getting smaller and smaller. I don't expect LMG Grens to win vs Penals at close/mid range - do you?
And my main question still stands. It's 1.4 and I wonder how many other light AT options were tried in WBP.
Here is the proof that Penals are now tooo strong:
i let them fight vs vet, without vet, with cover, with out cover vs grens, obers and volks.
if u look ....the win vs all of them (except ober vet 5 with LMG)
they shredd volks vet 5 even without to lose a single model!!
WTF is wrong with you? this is one of the best infantery vs infantery..now u need only penals with ptrs penals and you can deal with erverthink and bleed the enemy much..
Well, I'd expect 300MP squad to win vs Grens or Volks with similar veterancy.
Tho after upgrade, battle should be in favour of Grens (which in fact is the case).
Idk how it is with Volks with upgrade casue my connection forbids me watching right now
I feel like this whole "scope" makes patching impossible.
My point is, you can't properly balance Penals without touching Cons, upgrades and doctrines, yet you try to do it.
So I can imagine situation in, let's say, 6 months from now, with another community patch which will include Cons and doctrines in scope but Penals won't be in scope.
Again, it will be impossible to balance doctrines, cons and upgrade without touching Penals.
And even if Penals would be in scope togheter with other problems, then you would have to change Penals again, from WBP becasue "we coudn't make Penals perfct during WBP but we can now".
Therefore I consider any big changes for Penals a bit pointless if you can't touch anything around.
It's like fixing / buying new, beautiful silver tap for your kitchen while leaving rusty pipes.
PTRS Penals lose at all ranges and all vet levels to PTRS Conscripts. Tric seems to have misunderstood your question about which one has more powerful AT.
Why don't you run the tests for yourself?
Also, why the hell should we care about preserving the viability of 1 single doctrine, if we can make multiple other doctrines viable?
ANd you think that PTRS on Penals will give more options?
Answer is: NO.
Why would I go for panic PTRS Penals if I can simply go for... Guards?
Plus, if Penals would have PTRS and PPSH upgrade, you kill right away tank hunter and all ppsh cons doctrines.
It SHOULD be cons from Dank hunters, but it is indeed Penals, as they have 1 more now, which albeit is supposed to stem their damage output a bit, but doesn't do so effectively/reliably since it is only a 33% mis-chance at long range.
So the only saving grace for con dank hunters is they still have sprint and can snare, but that is it.
Thanks.
So like I thought. RIP this patch.
Penals with PTRS which should be punished in terms of AI are still better than PTRS Cons.
I feel like this patch wants to make mainline infantry from Penals, instead of semi-elite infantry.
So... Intead of making new doctrines viable, we can end up with even fewer doctrine viable (depends what upgrades Penals will have finally) since PTRS Penals are better than PTRS Cons and PPSH Penals are better than PPSH Cons, so you can scratch tank hunter and all ppsh doctrines.
No point in making cons apart from snare.
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