Profile of elchino7

Considering tech based infantry choices overall (which just got a ton more complicated with WF), I tend to side with suggestions of making Penals a 300-340 MP "blank slate" kind of unit.

What I mean with "blank slate" is they hit the field as SVTs, but can then, at Muni cost, be upgraded with ONE choice from the overall Sov infantry weapon loadouts.

So for example 2xDPs, or 2xATR, or perhaps a Flamer+PPSHs option for close quarters.

My reasoning behind this, is to make Penals a baseline tech unit that allows a wider potential Commander selection, without having to rely on Commanders to provide the typically specialised infantry options that Sov relies on from those.

SVTs are good. Satchel is quite a nuke, but why not.

What Sov is lacking in base tech tree, is a diversiable baseline infantry option.
I think Penals can provide that, if a wide upgrade potential is implemented.

You probably wpuldnt field more than 1-2, (due to cost) but the upgrade variety adds a real option to what it is you are actually needing in that match, without having to rely on Commander specific infantry.

Know what I mean?

As a result, Penals can fill the "gap" in whichever Commander choice, as far as specialised infantry goes.
Which imo is exactly what hard tech units should do. Provide a baseline around which Commanders are differentiated.

Besides the PTRS upgrade, thats what i have in mind. Since the change on T2 price, i think it´s acceptable to have T1 as purely an AI tier. And even if you add ATR uprades to Penals, that won´t provide a real threat to anything besides a 222 (we still have to see more people with Conscripts PTRS commander and see how it works).

@Marcus2389 as milkacow says, the flamer is kinda redundant with CE and even if they are given the capacity of flamin on the move, it would still be the "same" role as now with cons and suffer from the same problems with other assault units on late game.

Would it be too wild of a change what i´m gonna propose now?

Penals:
1-Increase price to 300-340mp

2A-Give them mosin (Guard accuracy) and 1 DP. Let them be able to upgrade to a 2nd DP for 45muni.
-Flamer upgrade replaces mosins and DP for flamer and SVTs (performance as now but for 30-45muni. The price difference is accounting for the mp increase of the squad)

or
2B-Either switch the SVT profile to make them more of a long range squad (as before, like G43)
-Reduce to 3 SVT with increased performance and give 3 mosins (con level) while mantaining desire DPS (give mosins with a little increased accuracy to PPSH Guards).
-Flamer stays equal as now.


Intention:
On either case i´m looking for a more different role/range for penals while also giving them a bit more estable dps. That´s the reason why i´m either giving them DP or reducing the number of SVTs.

This comes as an answer to the actual "problem" or performing of specialized weapons. See PGs for example. Eventhough they have great DPS, a "snipe/crit" makes it drop too fast making their ease of use not so good in comparison to things like LMG grens. US doesnt have such a unit but see for example as OKW with Obers or Panzerfusiliers (vs Falls/JLI without taking account there spawn on buildings or other abilities)


PD: weapon choice and performance are roughly an aproximation/idea of what they would be doing. It´s not strictly what i´m asking.

Yes it's the same for all support weapons. You see it more with Soviets because of German high accuracy results in faster kills. If as Soviets you get a German crew in the same situation and you have the firepower, they will do the same annoying thing. It's like that in Coh1 as well, but I think the animations were faster so it was harder to have this single file of death happen.

To my understanding its exactly the same with MG42.

Retreat an MG42 or mortar. Once the guy who carries the weapon dies, it teleports to other crew members. On the other hand, SU support weapons must be manned again before they are able to continue to retreat.

And i forgot: higher DPS, specially on range, makes decrews easier.

Cruzzs Suggestion isn't that good and brings unbalance side effects.

Short squads, with few models will be strongly buffed while large squads with more models will be nerfed.

let's take some random numbers: a 4 models squad vs 6 models squad

A squad: 4 model squads deals 120 dm and have 120 life. Reinforcement cost 40
Each model has 30 life
If a model dies, squad deals 120/4x3 = 90dm and remain 120-30 = 90 life

B Squad: 6 model squads deals 120dm and have 120 life. Reinforcement cost 28
each model has 20 life
If a model dies, squad deals 120/6x5 = 100dm and remain 120-20 = 100 life

It is more or less what we have actually in the game.

Now if we apply Cruzzs Logic, it become's harder to kill a model but as the 6 models squad has lowest life per model he is reaching his limit of 1 life / model faster than the 4 models squad. All B squad's models can die and divide the squad damage before being able to take 1 or 2 models from the A squad.

And it is exactly what happens in COH OF. Large squads can die without killing any models from small squads, just because they weren't able to deal enough damage to the squad
The actual system was used in vCOH which was far more balanced than COH OF.

Last point is about reinforcement, more life your models have, highest is the reinforcement price. But if their reliability increases, the team using A squads is going to save a lot more money than B squad.

ALL units has the same HP. 80hp.
Some units have modified receive accuracy, shocktroops are the only unit which has armor now (i think). Again, this doesn´t increase HP. Similar to vehicle combat, theres a roll that a HIT will "bounce" (deflect).
If you want to make a realistic comparison, you should had put A squad with more DPS and less health (due to less models) and B squad with more health but less DPS. Basically what we have with cons vs grens at mid range barely.

Spreading the DPS of LMG will make squads without specialized weapons have a bit more sustained DPS.
While the long range squad will deal the same amount of damage, it won´t be as quickly mp effective as now.

Zis vs Pak:
-if you want to take out barrage (which is 60muni, and if you lose something after 1st barrage it´s your fault) give it proper AT stats. RoF and Pen.
-TWP is bugged (meaning it targets ground) but works specially as a initiator or slower targets. You don´t use it against a fast tank which is movin on the open. On urban enviroments it´s far easier to land.
-Tracking doesn´t extend vision (nerf) just gives you minimap (tactical map) vision.

Instead of stating the obvious i would give some advices:
-x2 SU vs x2 OH: ger sniper forces hold fire (if he goes early x2 snipers) which means less xp, which means later guards, which means more time for 222 to deal damage.
-Ger sniper on cover cloaks faster than what the SU sniper can shoot.
-Ger sniper is on T1, so you get it by default. T1 as soviets locks you on an AI tier, which means you either expend more fuel on T2 or you won´t have AT support.

I know the theory but i would leave the "experts" to explain it. Don´t want to spread info with inconsistency.

MG42 has a bigger area supression (?) while also having some modifiers with the amount of entities on it´s arc. The bigger the blob, the faster the supression.

@Anyone who is a sage with stats: i remember reading that aiming the mg at a tank will supress faster squads which where nearby.