Profile of elchino7

Literally every plane ability does it, they target the things inside the circle even if they go out as they are locked on

The only problem arises when it's the only offmap i can think of that has a bombing attack attached to a loiter plane.

If you feel that's an attack, then it's my bad. The problem comes when you give an explanation to an issue and people keep repeating the same mistake or idea they have even though you just gave a detailed reason for what is happening. People just double down on their preconceptions.

Air supremacy and other offmaps: what modders did was to lock out the possibility of casting the ability on the base sector. That doesn't mean that you can't just cast it on strat points which are bordering the enemy base. This means that on any 1v1 or 2v2 map which has a small base layout, you can just hit fine the enemy HQ (their retreat point at least) if you know were to aim.

The problem with comparing it with Air supremacy, is that it works completely different than Sector assault. I'll repeat myself, Air supremacy was an artillery strike for all that it matters. New Air Supremacy is a scout, AI strafe and 3 "artillery" plane attacks in a straight line. The tracking of the AI plane is a joke.

1) Change the ability so that it is applied to a map sector (as the name suggests), so that during the tracking phase, the affected sector is highlighted on the minimap, and units within the sector is subject to tracking. AOE circle is not displayed here.
2) If a unit was tracked, and a bombing run is initiated, the destination of the bombing run is marked via an AOE circle indicator before the bomb is dropped. With this change, as OP as the locked on nature of the bombing run is, this makes it manageable.
Again, I don't know if this is feasible or not because I am not the dev, but I am not suggesting addition of any mechanic that is not already in the game, so based on the information I have, it seems possible.

1-Wouldn't change a thing. Loiter planes will keep chasing units down through other sectors. Problem now is the fact that the player doesn't realise that he will get chased down by a bombing plane due to the delayed effect.

2-You are suggesting addition of a mechanic which needs to be coded, tested and implemented.
If say, the bombing run actually targeted a specific point on the map, it would be possible to say throw flares into the area in which it would throw the bombs. In the case of loiter, it's dynamic. It won't know where to throw it till it's on range of the unit.

That's the problem here. Unless you see something which is already in game base, done by another modder (which would later required Relic approval), forget about it been feasible. The game is maintained by a "skeleton crew" (it's a 5 year old game, most support on this kind of games ends up on the first or second year) and any implementation is been done by cooperation with community modders and players. Through the last 2/3 years we know what's the limit of what it can be done (just check what were the conditions given by Relic for the new commanders).


If you think my comment is defeatist, you got it wrong. I'm trying to shift the discussion to a point which is relevant or at least feasible to implement. If the ability suddenly became strong/OP, let's focus on what it made it OP, what it changed compared to before, instead of trying to add workarounds to a flawed concept to begin with.

The only thing changed about the ability is the scatter. Everything you brought up as an issue is functionally identical to how the ability has been, in live, for the last 2(?) years. So yes, two years of playtesting, and there havent been any serious claims that this ability is broken during that time.

Was this the only thing changed from old sector assault to current version? Can you confirm it with the mod team?
I didn't playtest, therefore i didn't gave feedback on it and just voicing an opinion on the things i can see.
From what IIRC, the ability used to suck balls. But what i feel like is that there were more changes besides making bombs hit with a smaller scatter. That's is either the time the bomb plane (BP) loiters around, the time it takes to deliver the payload and the precision it has. And with precision i mean it felt like it locked down it's target position way sooner. Basically it would bomb the shit out of the position on which the unit was first sighted but now it's chasing it down and later bombing it.

I was simply answering your question on how I would change the UI to make it less misleading.
I understand how the game works, as well as how loiter usually behaves. You don't have to repeat yourself.

Suggesting things which are not feasible to implement doesn't move us forward.
Welp, you keep making bad assumptions (see below).

The problem with sector assault is that even though mechanically it behaves the same as other loiters, it doesn't "feel" that way in game due to the potency of the bombing run. Other abilities might wipe a single unit even when it behaves unpredictably, but sector assault has the potential to wipe the whole army in an instant. On top of that, it breaks one of the "rules" in that AOE bombing run abilities should not be able to be dropped inside the base, especially without vision. I know that the ability itself can't be used inside the base, but in practice, not only does the bombing run happen in base, it can happen even when the ability is used somewhere else on the map. This also happens without any indication as to how to evade it for the affected player.

The problem with Sector assault is that it's the only loiter plane with a bombing run assigned to it (which i can think off at the moment). Issues which i addressed before.
Any offmap which a big enough AoE can and will hit inside enemy base, specially when the base space if too close to a point or the base been really small.

Edit: just tested it, and you can easily hit south spawn on Langreskaya with Air supremacy.

We have seen other loiter abilities get nerfed over the years for this same reason. Why should sector assault get special treatment when it's the worst offender in being detrimental to the game? Especially when it is an ability that the balance team deemed to be broken mechanically and it's removal was proposed.

It will get nerfed. The thing is to understand what and why it's happening and how to change it.

Bomb dropping mechanics was fixed for Brits' Air Supremacy so that bombs are not dropped in the base, so it is hard to see why the same can't be done.

Because for all that it matters, the old Air suppremacy was an "artillery" attack. Bombing attack on new Air supremacy doesn't lock down targets, it bombs a predefine space based on map layout.

Didn't made a scrutinous look at it but will sticky it in the "Useful and interesting threads"

https://www.coh2.org/topic/84257/useful-interesting-threads-2-0

Knowing what happens exactly doesn't excuse the idea that this ability is detrimental to the game in it's current state.
If the ability is working as intended, then the UI is misleading and causes frustrations.
If the ability is not working as intended, it is broken and needs to be fixed.

Again, this is how ALL LOITER PLANES work in this game. You are asking for a change which is not feasible (IMO) since this is how it has been working for 5 years since the release of the game.

The UI can cause frustrations but it's something players need to learn. It applies to all components of this game.
Think about how scatter works with barrage type abilities (which can and will most of the time overshoot from the designated area at max range or how you can use attack ground to bypass max range targeting on ballistic weapons. Another example: snares. You just need to be in on targeting range, in order to use them. Even when vehicles darts away at max speed, the projectile will chase it down.

If the ability is working as intended, and it has 2 stages, the UI should have 2 stages.
First stage would work as it currently does.
Once it enters second stage, it should no longer show the large circle, but display the unit that is being targeted, either by highlighting, or show a blip on the map. Another possibility is to simply show exactly where the bomb will be dropped, as is the case with abilities like Air Supremacy with the Brits.

Other abilities do things like highlighting the map to show you exactly where potential attack comes in to let the user manage RNG. Sector assault as it stands does not do a good job of this.

This is not how the game works. Let me explain.
-IL2, AT Stuka, P47, Typhoons, etc. don't show which unit they are targeting. This also applies to any if not all offmaps. The only queue you have is the area on which the targeting begins. Be it by the initial flares or the circle area.
-As i said before all loiter planes will chase you down till the end of times. The difference comes from either the accuracy or the speed at which they do so. From most vids i've seen is that players enter in a false sense of "safety" which makes them stop their units.


UNDERSTANDING N FIXING the bombing aspect of the ability:

-First of all it would be for the best, to ask modders how exactly this ability work prior to the rework. From memory, the bombing aspect of the ability was really crap due to time of arrival, accuracy and/or numbers of bombs been thrown around.
-IF all they did was amp up the accuracy or how the tracking works, it could be peddle down from it's current state. The bombing should be effective against static targets INSIDE the circle or close to it and not as much as chasing down targets so far away. This is one of those cases on which a "BUFF" to the speed on which it bombs its targets will actually result in an overall nerf.

It would be great is someone did a test to see how the ability works against moving targets.