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You forgot about the Maxim WOOPS I DROPPED THE GUN loop. That needs to be fixed. And its not as good of an MG really. I think Mg I think Area Denial support weapon that controls blobs. The Maxim doesnt do this really. But hey I can LIVE with it once they fix the damn I DROPPED IT slaughterfest.
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i really dont' understand this too. can't they just pick that shit up? i also hate when you want to pull them back a little, they have to revolve around the centre(where the maxim was) and walk around in a circle to reposition. can i just have a tri-pod plz?
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wow. another person who refuses to pay for new contents and assert that developers should dish out new contents for free, while acting like he's the one in the right with principles that relic obviously doesn't have.
p.s.:
i don't know how you expect relic to grow their player base. advertise on internet/tv with money people like you won't give for a fair day's work? there were already many free weekends and sales but this game ain't that easy to jump in to, unlike fps. |
+1, 100% agree. The "foot in the circle" as I like to call it adds a whole level of depth that vCoH simply never had. You can use the CoH 2 capping system to prevent/delay capping of points in a way that didn't exist in vCoH. (This has won me at least 1 tournament game)
@Budwise - Daniel is also spot-on about the binary decision making of the vCoH capping system - you either had the time, or you didn't. Not exactly a deep/skillful system if you ask me. Also the CoH 2 map can change hands a lot faster since every squad can cap, which increases chances for comebacks (good thing) and increases the pace of the game (also a good thing). Weapon crews are already riskier investments than mainline infantry squads, removing their ability to cap is just foolish. Weapon crews are also less mobile than other infantry squads, so you do give up map control/mobility if you choose to build tons of them.
In regard to your comment about sitting squads in green cover to cap - this only applies to a few points on most maps. Generally, but not always, to cap you'll need to be in red/neutral/yellow cover which gives your opponent a significant advantage if he's in green cover.
Even though weapon crews can cap you hardly see anything except for MG squads capping because moving an AT gun/mortar into a cap circle can a) give away it's positioning if you're not careful about where in the circle it goes and b) generally makes it more vulnerable than if it were behind your lines. Regardless, that adds another choice for a player to make and choices correlate highly with skill. (The more choices a game presents players with gives more opportunities for the better player to make the better choice, thus giving the better player an advantage)
There are already tons of drawbacks to going a 4x MG start(or any heavy support weapon start). As I said before you're less mobile, you give up map control, you have no protection against light vehicles (no faust/AT nade) you're highly vulnerable to flanks, you are extremely vulnerable to indirect fire, you have no combat-boosting weapon upgrades (LMG/PPSh/Dp/G43/etc), they can't chase/wipe retreating squads, they don't bleed your opponent as much as normal infantry, you risk giving your opponent the weapon if your squad dies - I think you get the point. Also, build order *IS* considered, and honestly probably more so than in vCoH. It's actually pretty humorous that you seem to think that vCoH had deeper build orders or some crap. Yeah rifle spam into BARS or M8. Wow. Much strategy. Such deep. So vCoH.
Finally - @Porygon - suggesting that a 4 Maxim start will give you as much map control as a 4 Con start is bullshit. Maxims hit the map slower, have to pack up/set up, and don't bleed at all. Please tell me how that's capping the map as fast as cons... =/
+1 |
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wonder if this thread would exist if not for maxim spam |
What you're saying is true and should be taken into account.
Would it not mean that if they had their capping removed that both sides would have to make more careful strategic decisions and maybe build more infantry? This would open the games up a bit, make it all more mobile.
Here's an ImperialDane shoutcast (love his shoutcasts  ) where the soviet player at 6 minutes has 6 Maxims and an AT gun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnKsKPJM7K4
It's one of the dullest early games to watch 
why not make so that every different type of units cap at different speeds? that'll be super strategic.
problem is maxim spam, not all support weapons |
Pgrens solid? Hm.
I still don't understand, why Pgrens are "not supposed to" be a mid-close reliable unit. Why do they have ASSAULT rifles? (STGs?) Give them rifles or carbines then, ffs and it will be more understandable.
I mean what do germans really have in terms of infantry?
Grenadiers? "Fantastic"?! Yeah, they are at most suitable but "fantastic"?... No, "fantastic" are the shocks. They still die like flies and especially on retreat. A retreating 2 or 3 man squad being killed on retreat is not nice to see, no matter the faction.
Pzgrenadiers? If you take one-two steps out of cover you are down by 2 models. That happened to me while attacking a ZIS crew. A ZIS CREW! In that second is retreat or die. A unit with automatic rifles' purpose is to stay in green cover and defend? Where is the logic? Ok.... they can be upgraded with schrecks. The only true purpose of their current existence. Still, they only can use them defensively because, remember, one step out of cover and you're doomed, so you can chase nobody with that schreck. Don't tell me that for soviet being out of cover means the same penalty because I'll instantly tell ya that they have a 6 men squad.
Osttruppen? I'll let them out, their existence is embarrassing when speaking about infantry performance. They are more expensive than soviet irregulars while being torn apart by them (because, at german faction, nobody gives you a free lmg42 or a free Dp28. To whom will want to tell me that I have this facility at mobile Defense Doctrine: yeah, the chance for that Ost squad to actually have a lmg is similar to our chance to be hit by a meteorite).
Assault Grenadiers - the only reliable german infantry unit in the game. They have their weaknesses but that's normal, used properly they are ok. Oh, wait they are stuck in ONE DLC doctrine. Forget them....
So right there we've got 4 infantry unit types from which we have to chose, considering their "performances"
Now please count the number of infantry unit types at soviets, doctrinaire or default,and on top of that, please tell me, in how many soviet doctrines do you have the best soviet infantry and the best infantry in the game and in how many german doctrines do you have the best german infantry unit in the game.
grens are truly multi-purpose unit from the get-go
pgrens still melt units mid/close and at least decent at long
ass gren, i dont know so i guess you are right
ostruppen... i had two ostruppen in cover, mid range from a sov sniper. shot at that sniper for yay 7 seconds. the sov sniper got 25% health damage. i remember reading ostruppen are supposed to perform slightly worse than grens. that is not the case at all. they are worthless |
Quite simple. A good player will still try to use its MG42 both offensively and defensively. Living the Mg42 sleeping in a corner or in a building it's a L2P indicator. Try to use it offensively with your infantry. I guarantee your fingers will hurt. . Maxim on the other hand, can be easily used both defensively (there is no real difference while fighting from a building, compared to Mg42, except its crew), and offensively with a simple A-move due to its fast deployement time and absence of "owhwaaa" at the german side. Speaking of it, It's quite amusing to see soviet maxim catched off-guard when you try to flank/attack it with AGs. They are no used to deal with fast running infantry lol.
it's affective when using offensively with support. conservative =/ not using. |
I would say I disagree here, Mg42 with its large arc and all, so long as you position in a good place with no obvious flanking route you can leave alone. I find that the difference in pinning is split seconds so long as the MG42 does not have to rotate to target across the entire arc. Once both guns reach vet they both pin very well.
Maxim however can easily be flanked if left alone the cone is so narrow, you can even rnade the gunner and run through the cone whilst its re manning.
I would say the whole argument about fast re positioning being OP but requiring less micro is flawed i.e.
Op because the soviet player can micro the gun to suppress lots of units quicker than an MG42
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Maxim needs less micro...
=
???
+1
mg42 has longer set up time so you have to be more conservative. i dont get how that translate into 'harder to micro'... |
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i think we all are already used to how it is.
when it happens to me, i call bs and when i do it, i laugh
although, when there is a road on the retreat path, it's funny to see smaller vehicles out-running retreating units |
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1. it's bonus is static now.
it gives trickle of muni and fuel in normal point.
it gives you more trickle in fuel and muni point but only the
corresponding resource (7 fuel and muni)
2. yes (Editted: i was wrong)
3. no
4. no
the true effect/purpose of opel is to keep germans op in team games |
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