It was the same with V1 in CoH1 (no smoke, huge radius and destructive power). I don't remember anyone complaining about it.
It was also on a pretty long timer unlike in CoH2. And came to play later. And people did whine. It was still fun to propaganda retreat a bunch of infantry, then drop a V1 in their base while they were running so that they arrived at roughly the same time. So much rage. But being on the receiving end of this was frustrating to no end, so yeah... |
The argument that they are doctrinal, and therefore, somehow impliedly, should be "better", is false. Doctrine does not mean "better", it means "different from norm".
Their DPS is "as excellent" as Pgrens, but their survival is MUCH better.
Their absolute dps is lower (especially with the 5% accuracy bulletin on PGs, none of such for shocks) and they have the dps problem of large squads (less focus, more stragglers). When the design of the soviets places so much weight on what commander you are (compared to germans anyway), units have to be worth that tradeoff. Shocks ain't.
If armor wasn't so limited on infantry maybe I'd think better of them. But it's only small arms resistance without even helping suppression. If they were an equal MP cost to PGs I'd think better of them, but no, they usually bleed more manpower than they kill against PGs even ignoring the grenade imbalance. |
I think you mean T1, but I would love this. It's kind of rediculous that soviet can't build a infantry based at. It's not even as if guards are all that great at AT anyway.
It's just that you end up comparing them to shreks, which are on a different level. But the PTRS actually has decent penetration (better than t34  ), though fairly low damage per shot. And there's button...against people who don't use vehicle smoke, anyway. If you could stop them from dancing around like monkeys under fire and actually use the firing rate of the PTRS fully, they'd do pretty good damage to PIV and lighter vehicles (you can experience this by stuffing them in a halftrack or m3, which significantly increases their at damage because they're actually shooting rather than derping around.
DPS:
Pgrens: 45.392 / 25.984 / 6.576
Shocks: 41.076 / 22.842 / 4.614
Add to that the PGrens 1.5 Armor vs Shocks 2.25 Armor, and the outcome is clear.
Stop making false claims, please.
Pretty sure PGrens get a large DPS boost from their vet, shocks mostly get extra armor. That said, who has been making false claims? They have lower damage than PGs despite being a doctrine unit and more expensive and having more models which usually means they'll tend to focus on the same target less. |
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New balanced maps
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old balanced maps
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new unbalanced maps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
pripyat winter
They may or may not be balanced in coh2 in terms of who will win, but atleast we know for sure that there aren't stupidly large advantages for starting on one side of the map with these.
Also for gods sake fix the bugged building on the left next to the vp fork on Langres(kaya). I'm tired of having my units get stuck whenever trying to exit from the north side. |
Any buff would have to carry a nerf to some other of its elements.
It currently doesma little bit of everythinf, adjusting one of those capacities would require reducing another as well.
I am going to completely ignore that ridiculous comparison of Brummbar to SU76.
Ignore it if you want, they're more similar than you think. Especially in how useful they are compared to the alternatives available to the faction, and how glad you are to see that the opponent made one instead of the other units in the same tier.
The SU76 currently does nothing well enough to justify the cost, relatively low as it might be. It can't hit light vehicles (and loses to a scout car anyway in a shooting match because it can't track it fast enough) and it can't do notable damage to heavier ones. Without barrage it can't damage infantry (su85 kills at 2-3 times the rate) and the barrage is like a 120mm mortar round (non precision) on a huge timer with shorter range. It can't even destroy buildings except by driving right up to them to barrage because the scatter on it is so large it'll miss most shots in the barrage if you're not firing from 5m away. Which, with the 320hp and ostwind armor on the thing, is generally not a very good idea |
not sure but this is allowed ? o0
Even the campaign gives bulletin progress (as the soviets), why on earth wouldn't it be "allowed" to play with a friend and unlock stuff like that. |
SU76 can do a little of everything. Jack of all trades vehicle.
Yes, just like the beloved Brummbär. Which atleast is fairly efficient against infantry and stuns soviet vehicles pretty often (plus does constant damage with deflect), even if it is obviously overpriced for this niche.
The SU76 needs to do *something* better, because it can't kill infantry except through barrage (how many people stand around in one after the first shot?) and it can't damage tanks if they don't show their rear to it (the su76 isn't exactly maneuverable so you're not really doing "flanking" with it so much as you're leaving it standing somewhere and hoping stuff goes past).
I guess if they dropped the price down to 40 fuel they'd be slightly more enticing as an annoyance unit. Sometimes a point blank barrage is just what you need...those situations just don't come often and the rest of the time you're wishing you had some other unit. |
So, leading question time. Is this maybe part of the reason Shocks are kind of underused right now (the stat difference definitely explains how underwhelming Shock nades are)? I mean, Guards as a useful multipurpose AT unit will often win an engagement with P-grens through a grenade, whereas shocks as a dedicated AI unit will often lose one after taking a grenade.
Shocks are too expensive and kill too slowly. The 6 man, 480MP shock squad has less DPS than the 4man, 360MP PG squad. It has more durability thanks to increased armor and 2 extra models, but this really isn't what a soviet player generally needs at any point in the game, especially not in exchange for guards. You are already bleeding tons of MP through your conscripts (assuming you're just not spamming snipers like everyone), you don't need another MP sink that can't do that much damage itself. The slightly more random grenades really don't play into the equation much if you ask me. They'd pretty much have to be immune to suppression (hello KCH!) for me to feel they'd actually be worth the trade in some situations.
TBH I still think soviet play would be improved if guards were weakened a bit (in an anti-infantry role) and made non-doctrinal, because it's plain stupid not to have any anti-tank infantry option with half the commanders. |
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Maybe if they wanted people to feel buildings are safe they should remove the instant collapse on critical and the ability for even a scout car to crush a building. |
I dont understand why is everyone trying to compare Maxim with MG42. MG42 is meant to be used defensively while Maxim is an assault support weapon and it can even attack without any supporting conscripts in some situations.
MG bulletin has to be nerfed or better changed for something usefull and not IMBA and flanking should be more rewarding in generall (not only against MG42) but this is all we need and this is what we will get in next patch(es) as Devs promised. Any other nerf will totally cripple german early game.
People compare them because they're both HMGs and because right now the MG42 fills any role better than the maxim except for camping buildings (just because soviets have molotovs and germans do not). An offensively used MG42 is a very easy way to ruin a soviet player's day, and I'm thankful whenever germans play passively early game because it means I have a bit more chance to actually get some higher tier units into play.
The MG42 needs far more work done to it than just the removal of the stupid bulletin.
BTW. Germans don't need MG42s at all for their early game, grenadiers are already better than conscripts off the getgo (though only by a small margin, so if you're bad at dodging molotovs and your opponent is good at dodging riflenades then you might have a harder time with just them), require no fuel and manpower costing upgrades to gain special abilities, and scale better late game thanks to their general stats and the availability of the lmg42. |
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