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I often think people cut their own throat by spamming m8a, in this case you cut your own throat by not getting it. A single m8a would give you the auto barrage feature at 60 range to kill the infantry around the center vp and would give you the barrage ability to harass his ats and pak43 from 80 range.
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That accuracy modifier doesn't compensate these changes, play them and you will see. They have to behave now like ppsh cons or shock troopers while they are 4 models, unlike shocks and cons. In addition they have no body armor like shocks, reinforcement is alot more expensive compared to cons + reinfocement time = aka for ever (they cannot be brought back into fight quickly). So the disadvanatges are more than the advantage granted by the received accuracy modifier, and this is obvious, in my view.
What you are saying is not correct, but I do not want to change the topic to sturmpios. Instead I will answer the part that ties in with the kubel. Your sturmpios will take practically no damage as they close in to kill suppressed units (because of suppressed units dps penalty). And the changes I suggested to balance the kubel will not reduce its effectiveness in this scenario. It will just make it less able to go solo and avoid flanks so easily.
http://www.coh2.org/topic/23974/are-kubelwagens-op/post/215963
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What am I reading here is unrealistic and biased. Sturmpios buffed. Lol. Did you people use them actualy?
They are NERFED because:
Now have to close at punching distance to actually kill aka they will loose models quiclky than before while REINFOCEMENT TIME, REINFORCEMENT COST and UNIT COST are the same.
Those are the changes to the sturmpios:
Added a received accuracy modifier of 0.87
Near range distance from 8 to 3
Mid range distance from 16 to 15
Far mid distance from 35 to 28
Contrary to what you are saying, the received accuracy modifier makes them take less damage as they close in to do their damage.
As for the kubel, there is plenty of information in this topic on why its op. Here is one useful post:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/23974/are-kubelwagens-op/post/215530 |
Thread: Esports16 Sep 2014, 06:03 AM
So do you think kubels are still under performing?
You know, I dont think you realized how frustrated he was when you asked him that question in game, but why have you come to the game replay and posted the same question again, to enrage him more? |
Yes, Kubel and Sturmpios in unison will destroy any single Soviet T1 squad or unit. I realize we are not comparing units in vacuum and you are right there, but if Sturmpios are nosing around to support the Kubel you should really have a Conscript or Penal squad inside the M3, which would absolutely murder the Kubel if they stayed at long range.
That is the mistake I see many making in their argument, assuming that putting a unit in the sc will win you the engagement. No, it does not, because again he also has the sturmpios next to his kubel and the combined dmg from those 2 units is way more than the combined damage of an m3 plus a cons/penal squad, especially so because units in m3 get a 50% accuracy reduction.
You also advice staying at range with a cons squad, but that will gain you what? The meager 4.4 dps they output at long range reduced by half because of the 50% penalty for riding in the m3? That's like 2.2 dps with practically no penetration while shooting at the front of a kubel.
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Had to actually run the numbers, and well...your point is the correct one.
Kubel DPS at 1 pene with 100% accu: 47/41/39
M3 DPS at 1 pene with 100% accu: 51/35/25
So while the Kubel doesn't really give a shit what range it is at against the M3 DPS wise, the M3 very much wants to close in because it's long range performance is so bad relatively.
M3 < Kubel at long range, M3 = Kubel at midrange (total RNG fight), and M3 > Kubel at point blank. So knowing that the M3 has to rush in to actually win, you can just deal with it accordingly.
In this test the assumption is that every shot will penetrate and the accuracy is 100%? Is that a realistic scenario, and how does that take into account their calculated dps values? |
Now that I start to think about it, USF tanks are some of the only tanks that get Smoke non-doctrinal. I wonder if these can reliably be used offensively to break formations.
They can, but only the shermans have that ability and people dont like using them so you never see this ability used. |
Didn't notice that, quite interesting.
Also, moving in with m3 and going past the Kubel will result in shooting at the Kubel with the rear gun, and forcing the Kubel to turn and lose its stationary bonus (what is the impact of stationary bonus other than supression?).
only suppression
Then, if Kubel chooses not to move you can reverse to be in front of it, rinse and repeat.
This is assuming the kubel is by itself, but most likely it will be accompanied by stumpioneers, in which case you just exposed your m3 weaker rear armor to them. In about 5 seconds your m3 will be dead.
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Actually, the Kubel loses damage from closing in on it, the Kubel fires shorter bursts at close range. At long range the Kubel has the burst advantage, firing longer bursts. At close range the Kubel fires shorter bursts than the M3, and gets wrecked for it. A long range fight is RNG, but a close range fight should go to the M3.
Here is the final dps for this unit including burst, reload, and all the good stuff: near 17.4 far 4.8.
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I thought the same, there is no way that maths works for that change.
Another change that could be done is leaving Kubel as it is now, but making it unable to reverse, alike to old vCoH german bike.
That would make a bit tricky to avoid good enemy flanks as the Kubel would be obligued to make a dangerous turn to run away.
That's a nice idea but, if I am not mistaken it's acceleration and rotation speed will still enable it to move out of trouble very quickly without the need for reversing. |
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