no it wasnt independent for reasons barton stated.
to, its not a resolution, it was a series of tribunals. that is a difference.
and the katyn part of it was wrong. sowjet propaganda.
Oh boy, you really are a stubborn one. Series of international military tribunals without a resolution, I do not know if I should laugh or cry, really. Thank you for this one. Quite a good joke.
Now, just for your education: http://untreaty.un.org/cod/avl/ha/ga_95-i/ga_95-i.html |
i dont believe in the nürnberg-tribunal, but i do believe many sources showing, that it was a sowjet massacre
How do I put it, if you do not believe in the resolution by the official and independent judicial body (and Nurnberg was independent, as the resolutions have been passed by the joined Soviet, UK, US, Great Britain and France jury, this means you somewhat question it. If you question it - you ought to protest and change the resolution. If the resolution has not been changed or cancelled, than it's still in full effect and power. So your disagreement is strictly your personal opinion, which in no way questions the resolution itself. It always has supreme power upon your personal opinion.
Besides, do you know that during the Crimean conference of the three ally states (USSR, USA, UK) Winston Churchill proposed to catch and shoot without a court the major war criminals? Whereas the ugly and bloodthirsty Stalin insisted on first accusing them in the court of tribunal and than, after they are officially found guilty, shoot? |
Poland has logded a protest. the answer:
1990 Mikhail Gorbachev admitted that the NKVD had executed the Poles and confirmed two other burial sites similar to the site at Katyn: Mednoye and Piatykhatky.
other than that, many investigations show, that the sowjets did it.
i dont believe in the nürnberg-tribunal, but i do believe many sources showing, that it was a sowjet massacre
ok, so please tell me than why the resolution of Nurnberg tribunal still contains the fact that it's the Nazi Germany which executed Polish officers in than controlled territory of Katyn? |
It was interesting, by the way, read this thread.
Once again I was convinced about the attitude to the Russian people.
Of course this is not a capitalist propaganda to blame, you are completely objective in their assessments.
Dear friend, while I agree with you with your opinion on some absolutely irrelevant people on this forum, I still believe you can not take their words as an opinion of the majority in their country. Been everywhere over Europe (except for Hungary, Chech, Romania, and North European countries), and I can say that except for Western Poland attitude towards Russians is pretty tolerable, there is no hate. Same goes to US and Canada - been there as a tourist too. I have not noticed any hate towards me even after I said I am Russian. Could be because I didnt talk politics to them, I dunno. |
as you may know, sowjet union accused nazi germany of doing this. this is its on the german list in nürnberg. still, it was done by the sowjets. thats it
still, crazy archer wants to proof all these books wrong. not me.
Than why untill this day nor Germany as a successor to Fascist Germany (being an interested party), nor Poland, as being most interested party, neither any other uninterested party has not lodged a protest to this part of Nurnberg verdict?
You know, we can write whatever we want in wikipedia, books, memoires, forums and whatnot. But the resolution by the tribunal or any other court or judicial body in the modern civilised society is considered to be the ultimate truth. So... |
Ofc Nazis had plans with eastern european countries and their inhabitants aswell, once they had won the war, and might have been made true. However germany lost the war and all those documents are visible now. The documents of a possible Stalin victory over europe and the world however are still buried in the kremlin archives. If it comes to ideological motivated crimes, soviets and Nazis were close to each other.
Hmmm, it's pretty obvious USSR had won the war and conquered Eastern Europe states. So it was absolutely free to do on these territories whatever it wanted.
However, I do not notice any evidence of mass genocide on the conquered territories. Neither I remember concentration camps with gas chambers, massive furnaces, equipment for experimenting with alive human beings for Polish, Chechs, Hungarians, Romanians, and USSR own people (Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians).
It is obvious, and I absolutely agree with it, that the limitation of human rights, repressions of political foes, which apparently took place in the Eastern Europe countries after the war, are the crimes against humanity.
But history is a very hard matter, and we can not judge everything as strictly white or black. It's all about the shades and the tints of grey.
So please, tell me frankly, is the mass extermination of the whole races, experiments over living human beings, and enslaving the remaining population to work them to death is is as monstrous as limitation of civil rights and political repressions in relatively small numbers (and comparing to the Eastern plans - in negligibly small numbers)?
In my humble opinion, genocide of whole peoples is way worse and monstrous, bloodcurdling act, than civil rights limitation. And it's not just my opinion. Can't even compare the regular homicide with homicide, based on racial or nationalist hatred. Ans we're talking MASS homicides here. |
well, everyone should know, that the germans were villains. there are trillion of movies, books, etc about german warcrimes. but you dont read that much about russians criticisng their history.
other than that, good post!
Just a small correction. It's not Germans crimes, but Nazi Germans crimes. That's a big difference.
The same reason I do not use word Russian, but Soviet from the WW2 perspective.
But still, I believe that the main idea to not show the Natzi crimes was not the fact that the whole world is already aware of it. It was just to stress out how ugly the Soviets were, which fought for nothing but Stalin's reichstag photo ambitions. And fought like cowards, shooting off surrendering PoW, inefficiently massacring their own people without any reason, and burning inhabited houses with own people. |
@Sharpmax: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.
@carloff: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.
@Break: Tell me three Soviet atrocities that you recognise.
Isn't this spamming? Pretty much the reason I have been banned from Steam CoH2 forums for a month. I haven't copypasted same message though. |
You put words into my mouth. I never stated anywhere, that there is no nazi plan for eastern european population, nor that Hitler wanted to just liberate soviet supressed countries. I didnt even mention this guy.
If you didnt recognize by now, but you get a smile by the rest of the community here acting like little children, who dont get enough attention.
I assume you are russian, by judging your arguments? How can you defend a regime and take the word "holocaust" in your mouth, when the world is well aware of Stalins atrocities (holodomor, stalins purges, the enslavment of the eastern countries, ...) BEFORE the war?
Well, I believe in one of your posts I read something like Hitler never wanted to exterminate Slavics from Eastern territories. So, if it was not for enslavement and extermination, than it was for liberating them. That's called logical deduction.
As for "holodomor", Stalin purges - I believe that this here game focuses strictly on the WW2, so these topics are pretty much out of that time scope. And I am really surprised with the fact you are not aware of this. It is quite disturbing. But the fact that you mentioned this was BEFORE the war is kind of optimistic, gives me hope that you are not that illiterate as you seemed to be with your statement, where you openly denied Hitler's plans.
Besides, if you have noticed, there was the post by that Daffi or whatever the name of the Game Director, that the game's main focus was not on Stalin or Hitler, but on "celebration" of the great feat and sacrifice, heroism of the Soviet soldiers.
So, in order not to be banned by one-sided mods on these forums, I will try to keep the conversation at bay, not going off-topic, and I really suggest that you do the same.
Peace |
germany was the agressor? nice joke. very nice joke. ever heard of poland?
Its not Vermaht but Wehrmacht. you cant even spell this name HALFcorrect. this seems to show you history-skills
I see your point. So the USSR first attacked the Poland, and USSR was the agressor. And the noble Nazi Germans decided to help their smaller neighbouring friend and charged the attack on the USSR to reclaim the once used to be Rzhecz Pospolita lands from evil Moscovites, right? |
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