I think the biggest issue is like Vaz said the efficiency of OKW bleed. There reinforce is all over the place but as a percentage they are on the lower side compared to other factions.
I will put the percentage to fully reinforce based on purchase price but I can put cost if someone wants.
OKW:
Unit %
Sturm 30
Volks 38.4
Fussi 37
JLI 37.5
Fall 31.8
Ober 35.2
So over the course of a game this leads to the OKW manpower float which directly allows for the blob to form and be maintained.
Edit: Added OST and a couple other units.
Looking at the % it makes sense for OST to have wonky reinforce for some units due to relying on support weapons more. However OKW is infantry heavy and the reinforce is to low for its mainline compared to the Allied faction. This means with equal deaths OKW will be able to save up to build more units while allies are just trying to keep Units fully reinforced. I think just increasing the reinforce cost for early units would solve several problems people are having with OKW blob. It would slow it down considerably while being a soft nerf to Fussie blob, VG blob with Obers.
I was talking nondoc as Esxile talked about superior stock elite infantry. If you add doc in, then PF blob shows up by midgame and they don't even need Obers. Hell they can just meme with Falls or in the case of UKF (ab)use JLI until the UKF player RQs. MG34 is not a real issue imho considering the plethora of USF smoke abilities.
Realistically you won't get PGs that quickly, unless your opponent is being strangely lax (1v1) or it's teamgames (which is another matter entirely). Having such a weak force out there is asking to get shot to pieces by allied mainlines outnumbering you, esp Rifles. To that end OST extremely often get a Sniper instead vs USF, which slows down the arrival of PGs even more.
I understand he said superior stock elite, so there is no reason to disqualify any of the doc units since they don't lock out getting Obers. But I do agree with you Volks alone until Obers is asking for a hard time against every faction.
For the PG, not sure what you mean by weak force. What I used to see was MG/Grenx3 and depending on player and doc they made 4th gren or tech so that PG could be built. Then they would go T2 later on for AT gun for LV. Snipers seem to be more on the elite players since most of us plebs lose it to bad micro/brain farts.
Not really relevant imho as one is locked behind Tier 4 (fighting for your life with volks) and the other you purchase after getting a standing army of grens/Osttruppen/MG(s).
That is not completely true. OKW has options to help out volks like PF, JLI, Falls and machine gun to slow down enemy blobs until Obers show up.
The second statement is even stranger since every other army would be purchasing their respective elites after having a standing army. Assault grens can be built without T1 so that is savings that can be used towards making PG while osttruppen are dirt cheap so aside from micro nothing is stopping the player from making at least 1 PG. Also since PG can come without T2 they can hit the field around 4 mins which leaves them as a massive power spike.
Decided to mess around and try a SU76 spam build with Def tactics. I was expecting to lose but try it out to see if I could make it work.
I was pretty much dictating the game with my normal build, made T70 lost it killing his Flak Trak but was pretty much in control. Made a couple SU76 found his Flak HQ, decided screw it lets try barrage, barely did any damage. Made a 120 mortar which did slightly better until delayed fuse where it did a lot better. Lost both of them trying to take down the Flak HQ, again wasn't really trying to win just doing some test against live player.
Ended up making 3 to try and kill his Sturmtiger and I noticed they take a bit to shoot even though they have high rate of fire. Did some damage but lost them. Expected since they are trash but I didn't realize until the end how bad they were. I rushed him with last bit of SU76 and what I noticed is that if a vehicle leaves the LOS even if it was just hit it almost immediately drops to FOW.
Thoughts:
Supposedly the point of this unit is to work as a crutch if you are behind on gas. Well that can't be since it will only Pen a P4 or lower so it is useless vs OKW which have higher armor units to begin with.
Since it is a LV, if the unit is gonna have horrible stats it should by default come with vehicle tracking when it lands a hit. It is to clumsy to use otherwise.
What is barrage good for? Can't reliably hit infantry or building so what is it supposed to do other than waste muni.
Mobile reserves wasn't to bad, let my Penals vet faster to bully volks around. Would be nice if Teching it reduced cost of T4, otherwise no one is going to do it.
Edit: Maybe give it a global stun shot.
Decided to mess around and try a SU76 spam build with Def tactics. I was expecting to lose but try it out to see if I could make it work.
I was pretty much dictating the game with my normal build, made T70 lost it killing his Flak Trak but was pretty much in control. Made a couple SU76 found his Flak HQ, decided screw it lets try barrage, barely did any damage. Made a 120 mortar which did slightly better until delayed fuse where it did a lot better. Lost both of them trying to take down the Flak HQ, again wasn't really trying to win just doing some test against live player.
Ended up making 3 to try and kill his Sturmtiger and I noticed they take a bit to shoot even though they have high rate of fire. Did some damage but lost them. Expected since they are trash but I didn't realize until the end how bad they were. I rushed him with last bit of SU76 and what I noticed is that if a vehicle leaves the LOS even if it was just hit it almost immediately drops to FOW.
Thoughts:
Supposedly the point of this unit is to work as a crutch if you are behind on gas. Well that can't be since it will only Pen a P4 or lower so it is useless vs OKW which have higher armor units to begin with.
Since it is a LV, if the unit is gonna have horrible stats it should by default come with vehicle tracking when it lands a hit. It is to clumsy to use otherwise.
What is barrage good for? Can't reliably hit infantry or building so what is it supposed to do other than waste muni.
Mobile reserves wasn't to bad, let my Penals vet faster to bully volks around. Would be nice if Teching it reduced cost of T4, otherwise no one is going to do it.
Loss after loss some good some bad games, god damn I needed this W.
Went with airborne, engi/Penal/clown car. Had a feeling he would make fussies cause that is what is always is. He went for my gas with sturm and volks which I fought back with Penal and engi until my car came to make it 3v2. Got some good drops and forced retreat and then pushed his fussie back. Challenged him over the map as much as possible and kept pressure up.
Made Dshka, seems to work good against fussie early since they usually blob up to try and get wipes. He made Puma first which I guess was in response to expected T70. I split his forces by sending T70 one way and had his army try to take it down. PTRS clown car came in for PUMA, got the kill and from here T70 starts to pay off in damage and kills. I make multiple Dshka to force him back or slow him down while my T70 runs around and forces retreat.
Gas is heavily in my favor, got 2 T34 and 1 Katy by the time he makes his P4J, caught him slightly out of position. Hit him with At strafe and both T34, RNG was trying to fuck me over again but I got the kill. Trade was ok because I still have both gas and Katy is hitting and forcing retreats. Build 2 more t34 and another Katy, pretty much suppress, rocket retreat until end of game.
Start match with Engi/clown car/3 penal. He rushed my gas with Sturm and volks then decap. I fought back with 1 engi and clown car until penal came and I forced retreat. Other engi went around to decap gas so he wouldn't steam roll me. Put 1 engi in clown car rushed his gas which he was attempting to cap with Kubel, got the kill and ran out of there before his 2nd kubel got me. At this point I have infantry advantage and I saw he went mechanized. Since my clown car was still alive went for PTRS and caught him out of position.
Any advantage in early gas is now gone, I get my T70 out since he decided to make falls, he got some wipes I got some wipes but I had more map and felt I was outplaying him. Decided to make Katy 1st since he seemed to be trying to spam Rak and Falls. Didn't get many kills but forced retreats and did some damage. Eventually I decide to push his badly positioned Schwerer with 2 satchels, At strafe which really didn't do much and Katy which finally destroyed it.
At this point, he has to go KT so I get 3 T34 and hope I can catch him. His KT wipes 2 squads and I guess he felt in control so he pushed across middle of map with tank and infantry. Katy wiped out 2 Falls squad and damaged another squad. I rushed him with 3 T34, lost them all and his KT survived with maybe quarter life or less. Shit is not looking good however I was upgrading another Penal with PTRS just in case and rushed straight to his mechanized building and I found him. I guess he forgot I had AT Strafe called it in and got the kill. Momentum swings my way again.
Now game is again heavily in my favor due to him trying to save MP so he isn't fully reinforcing his squads so I keep punishing him. He obviously is trying to save for KT so I hide my Penal behind sightblocker and wait for the magic to happen. Since he is low on points now he gets desperate and I snare his KT and kill it of with stolen Rak and T34.
Thoguhts:
First KT got great RNG roll, my tanks hit the ground 2-3 times. How the hell do you miss that thing. 2nd one RNG went my way my T34 penetrated at point blank when I needed it to.
He picked the best flanking tank. Higher health them M4C, versatile and with pretty good penetration for a medium. Seems like it was calculated decision. Personally I have no idea what commander could have done better job. Maybe Urban with zook rangers and smoke/sprint? Still imo ST won the game.
Also couple commets behind I posted a cast of Jibber vs top 50 OKW and in that match ST got 80 kills.
I must've missed that one, I will check it out.
Back to the E8, I thought it was supposed to be used more as a brawler not flanker. He never really flanked with it due to how cumbersome pathfinding is and the map itself has a lot of shotblockers that seem indestructible. Flanking in this game was not really an option, the announcers even said to start the match it would be a bad choice. Like I originally said, he had nothing to force Kimbo to push instead of play defensively with Sturm. That is what make is so OP, Kimbo played horribly with Sturm compared to Inca in the beggining however Inca's supposed flanking tank could not push due to Rak/potential snare/map design. Even when he did catch him he had to reverse since it has similar range. Watching him play, I think Inca would have demolished him with Cali and Jackson, the Sturm would have been forced to push or risk wipe after wipe from Cali barrage.
Edit: Does E8 have heavy crush? If not the bulldozer sherman would have done better moving back and forth.
Edit2: Just saw parts of the game skipped around. Holy Shit, how can it be Ok that Sturmtiger is available before Heavies are. Aside from being fairly cheap for what you get, it should at least come at CP10. It does not fear AT guns.
I agree its to strong but that last battle in no way makes a good case. Inca picked Rifle company, right when he picked that at around 11-12 minutes I knew he was gonna lose. Most of that company is made redundant by the Sturmtiger and he has nothing to force the enemy to him. I feel like that game highlighted how mediocre the E8 and Rifle company is.
Mines/fighting position is useless against sturmtiger since it can destroy one easily and mines wont be placed on his side late game due to fear of wipes. Never made halftrack which shows how pointless it is and The E8 has to get within range of Sturm to fight, and for the people who say use focus gunnery he didn't use it from what I saw.
Speaking about the Sturm it looks like if it had to stay still to reload this game would have been over pretty quickly. Inca seemed to be vastly better in that last game.
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rumartinez89
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