so 2cps and pgrens with clowncar is alright timing. Most elite infantry are 2cps, so It is all good. I guess you might have Pgrens before BP1, but this strat has a downside of delaying your 222. Also even if you active enough and get 2 cps before having resources for BP1, you still won't win a lot of time, but you get a very late Clowncar with slightly early Pgrens.
BTW the guy you played against could go BP1 even before he could build a that party bus
About replay:
I think you understood that 2 engies into clownlar does not work if you have no munies, no point into.
I agree with Donnie the medic timing was late. With penal build I would have an itch to build Medics when I saw that 4men almost 10% Hp squad. That's like instant +100MP into -200mp upgrade.
Also PPsH penals? Do they work? Very weird upgrade for a squad that has SVTs. maybe it synergizes great with penals passive, no clue really, but they never worked for me and I was spamming Airborne for more then a year and a half
Thanks, I only make one and it is totally dependent on still having clown car alive. Most players don't expect it so easy wipes or wipes when chasing. SVT are better overall, but they don't wipe as well. I use airborne for LMG for long range damage so it works out well. However there is no indirect which can mess you up.
Your thinking applies to this map, in Langranska where muni and gas have same cutoff, you cannot efficiently counter it. They are not worried about scout car because you wont have a vehicle.
EDIT: Like you said he had enough to BP1 but didn't since it wasn't needed. That hoarding of resources due to no BP1 or T1 lets the player keep massive pressure going and can technically bring in a 2nd one to close game out.
Again I didn't save the better replay. In that one, which was a different opponent, he only capped enough to connect MID VP to his base so that he could build a reinforcement bunker. He made no attempt to CAP rest of map. He kept pressure on me and brought in the PG. It doesn't matter that it is LATE, what matters is no counter is available. IF I had gone T2, it would be to early for AT gun, the only way I can think of countering it is with conscript SPAM and hope retreats happen.
For the better OST players, give it a try specifically on Langranska and give your thoughts. |
yes, but that car is very very bad. you can gun it down with your penals. its only good when you rush it in, but for that situation you have your penal AT satchel.
that car delays the OST tech way too much. when you stall it and defend your 1 fuel it has no impact and you get t70 while he has nothing
I agree, but the guy I played against wasn't that good with it and the map helped also. On Langranska, sorry if I messed up the name, the middle VP gives a good portion of middle map where mg can be setup along with bunker really early. That cutoff prevents any muni collection along with gas. |
Well, that is the point of the commander.
Also, he does need BP1 to build Pgrens, just not the building (iirc).
This is rather a L2P issue than a balance issue.
I know that he does not need the building, the point I am making is that this commander allows him to call-in PG without needing BP1. The added benefit of not needing to waste resources on T1 means that the player doesn't need to focus on map control and can rush straight at you. The fighting allows the CP build which then lets the player call in the PG/clowncar which will not have a natural counter at this point. |
so i actually decided to watch your replay because you provided one. heres my feedback
dont use your first engi to fight --> cap with it
dont get scour car first --> get penal, cap 1 point
go for muni first fr faster flamer
use your units in conjunction--> you fought a lot with single units in bad positioned
you capped with scout car when it was loaded -> at this point you should have attacked the mg s
you had 70 muni and you still didnt get the scout car flamer. instead you threw a satchel -> thats not cost efficient
firtst cap muni, so you can get flamer earlier
you had no map control and no heal, but you decided to get t3--> this forced your to be idle a lot because you hadt got enough fuel
get t3 after medics.
at penals were good. but why 2 sqads? this cost you ant inf power, but he had only inf
you let your mg too far behind when you regained map control. use it to cover front munis/fuels
to sum up: you chose bad confrontations. you often let single units fight vs multiple units, sometimes even you didnt use cover
i suggest following build order: engie, penal, scout car penal
cap muni first, get 1 flamer, avoid confrontation at this time, when you have flamer car and 2 penals, attack his mg with all of that, leave other engy behind to cap and maye lay mines
get only 1 at penal -> he had only 1 vehicle, stall it and use cover
your heal was way too late, get it before t3
get muni point firstm when you lose muni point try to get it back immediately
good attacks on cutoff
Thanks, I posted the wrong one since the first game was against a different player who was better at it caused the rant. Didn't save it. It wasn't my best game due to being pissed off. I usually get the car out first against OKW to minimize bleed.
However did you notice what I was talking about, when I rewatched he was able to call in his PG/clowncar with no tech investment. |
Have you tried a single vehicle? 1 UC/vickers, or M3 scout car should do the trick.
Since your opponent doesn't have a snare and shrecks on Pgrens are expensive.
I am a SOVIET T1 player, thats what I do, in one of the games I was wiping his units. However due to no T1 building or Tech for BP1 he was able to replace and rush out the PG/clown car.
ONCE AGAIN, this specific commander allows the player to bypass BP1 to get PG, which means they have no tech delays so early pressure is unreal. |
Firstly - welcome to the alternative opener for the OST - 2x pios/assgrens and 2xMG42 into pgrens.
The main shtick of that opener is to rush enemy cutoff, while protecting your own. However, there is no mobility or flexibility to that build - until you get those PGrens out, you are a sitting duck.
Smoke MGs, flank them, use ultra-lights, abuse that long set-up time of MG42s. Use garrisons or just cap up the rest of the map - you got aroung 4 minutes of pure turtleing from your opponent.
Prepare for that shock of PGrens, mitigate it with your own MGs or baseline infantry in superiour numbers.
Everyone here is missing the point. I have played and dealt with that opening. That is not the problem.
SPECIFIC to this commander you can get PGrens without having to go BATTLEPHASE 1, it is either a mistake or was overlooked. So you will not have superior numbers due to their lack of tech investment. That creates extreme pressure on your economy to keep up. You will not have anything like you said to push it back. |
RANT!!
No shit. Thanks for giving your irreplaceable and insightful thoughts on the subject.
The problem is simple do you believe Pgren should be available before going BP1 or not? |
Rank?
Game Mode?
Map?
Faction?
Replay?
I posted 1 in the replay.
My rank before going on the losing streak was low 400 dropped to 600 I think.
1v1
Langreska was the worst abuse due to the Mid VP giving so much territory to place bunker if needed.
I played Soviet but in general USF would have the same problem. |
|
I just played 3 games in a row against this commander. Did someone recently use this strategy.
Most recent game, player doubles up on MG and Assault Grens rushes my Cutoff and attempts to wait out for PGREN call in. As the opponent you push them to stop the strat which helps them by building up their CP. Also due to not having to build T1 or tech they are able to keep pressure up until car comes in.
In the first games it was same player and they did build T1 for Gren snare, but again did not tech up save fuel for car. He did not attempt to cap map at all, parked his MG in front of cutoff was able to build reinforce bunker next to it and I had to completely loop around to get him. He didn't really play well either as I stole a MG from him but once the came it took to much to kill it which he promptly replaced again. At that point I said fuck it and GG.
In the end, the main issue is the ability to get PGREN without tech. Since they can save the Fuel and MP from tech and building it puts massive pressure on opponent to outplay them.
Assault grens themselves don't seem to be to big of an issue but combine with techless Pgren it is extremely oppresive. My suggestion would be to remove Pgren from car call in or require BP1 before car can be called in. |
|
What is up with the recent Mechanized assault use/abuse?
Last few games have been against Mech Assault, decide to go with engi opening into clown car. I see his MG is out of position so I push my Engi and follow up with scout car to force retreat. He now Pushes with 2 MG, which I repel, and see AssGren, here we go again. I am playing better than him but he keeps pressuring me. I get Penal SMG in car push 1 mg lose car but get wipe and steal MG.
Now is when the BS really hits, he is able to call in PGren+car WITHOUT having to tech up. He rushes my gas and cutoff and starts to push me back, PTRS penal damages his car but since it is dugin it takes less damage. I had my MG set up in good position and SMG penal get the kill so he is forced back again. My T70 finally comes out and I push him hard and start killing most of his units since he doesn't Have snare. I am trying to cap as much as possible to catch up in gas since he is building T3. I get lots of models but no wipes and forced back due to shreks.
I catch him out of position again with SMG and able to Kill another MG, engi and several other units when he finally quits.
I felt I was way better but the strat allows him to make up skill with cheese. |
Relic Entertainment
