This is just a suggestion for mainlines, presenting 2 choices for upgrades/sidegrades, that come at a cost, but which could come in handy if the situation demands. And the ''real/good'' mainline upgrades is doctrinal.
UKF.
-5 man bolster
-4 man with snare option
SOV.
-7 man cons
-6 man with 2-3 ppsh's
OST.
- mg42 LMG
- 1-2 G43's (think jaeger package is 3 g43's ?)
OKW.
- 2 STG's
- sprint or smoke package
USF.
- choice of BAR's or zook's
-2 garands with longer, more effective range
Dont mean to be a jerk but the suggestions are bad aside from USF since they are pretty much a downgrade. I really feel garands would help with late game bleed.
I the spirit of your idea I have been thinking that Volks should get a 5 scoped Kar upgrade that would literally keep their weapon profile but increase the base damage by like 4 per gun. That way Volks would scale better into the late game but would have a clearly defined weakness. |
I keep trying to fit in quad mount into my build especially for the chase down wipes.
Started with engi to clown car, had a feeling the strum would go for my gas. Worked out ok due to VG providing back up until penal arrived and I pushed him back. Pushed with Penals trying to get Vet up as quick as possible. Got CP2 and called in mg and weapon crate.
Since he went for my gas it was a long retreat path so I chased down a VG with SMG clown car and got the wipe. He captured his gas with back up from Flak so time to get PTRS and go hunting. I send in SMG penal so Car can go in with minimal damage, which catches him off guard but PTRS decide to shoot infantry instead of flak so he gets away. I retreat to safety and call in Quad to try and stress his micro.
My MG is in the building and I turn on AT rounds while also satcheling another squad, get the wipe and push his Flak with PTRS car do damage but lose the car. He thinks he is safe but I chase after with quad and get kill, SWS truck kill and also getting another wipe from retreating VG. At this point he must be real pissed because he then loses Sturm to MG while being in green cover so you know it took a while.
While this is going on I called in Airborne guard to decap his gas. Game is heavily in my favor so I get T34 and attack him with it to get him to spam raks which he does along with Obers. I harass him here and there but never use tanks which makes his raks useless. I finally get my Katy out and try to attack a rak but kill Ober instead. He gets more and more irritated so he pushes mid but I attack left side at similar time while calling in AT strafe which hits him hard. he keeps poking me with the low health P4 but I dont bite due to his 3 raks. My army eventually becomes to much for him to overcome and I bleed his VP to 0.
My goal without wipes obviously is 1 SMG, 2 Penal(PTRS as needed), 2 LMG airborne and engis for repair. Expensive but covers all ranges while also reducing late game bleed due to LMG durability.
Game went pretty much how I wanted the build to go.
1: SMG penal got early wipe
2: Quad got chase down wipe which is a little more consistent then T70.
3. Quad and PTRS can cover against Flak which gives me the most issues.
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Its not a new bug, I pointed it out a few months ago.
The issue is if there is a conscript model in the Penal squad SVT get equipped.
Its part of the reason I went with engi opening instead of conscript. Keeping track of which Penal had been merged got to be a pain.
EDIT: I think it was left alone since most people dont make SMG penals and it only affects one commander. |
Very interesting, part of me thinks BARs are so high since Rifleman were expected to get 2 in the late game.
Hannibal could you test what would happen if you lowered the scatter for BARs and then double and triple BARS(Rifleman/Rangers) for the sake of science. |
Before the match saw a lot of G43 in his loadout, so I wanted to go with one of my Dshka commanders.
Opened with engi to cap faster and then clown car to minimize bleed/cap harassment. I rushed his gas, decap, and ran away while damaging his engi and Gren. I guess his MG couldn't face that direction which helped a lot. I pushed him back with a penal squad while I got the car to a safe place to repair. I went for the far right point to cap got him to face his mg that direction and attacked with car from behind. Got the decrew and stole it with engi squad, lost my car in the process but I think the trade was worth it.
I decide to make an SMG penal cause that is what I do, no good reason just like them. Messed up by not putting it on my most vetted squad but oh well. I proceed to force retreats when ever I close in with SMGs and start to control most of the map. I build T3 but decide I am going to T34 rush since I am controlling both gas, get out a Airborne guard but missed clicked and didn't get the building spawn go LMG to round out my army.
I get T34 out, and poke him he shoots back with at so I back off and harass the edges. When I get my second one out, I go to try and save my mg which I do but lose tank to double AT guns. Pissed but I did kill his Jager command squad with SMG. I get another tank out and he gets his P4 out, we trade here and there. I am focusing on avoiding his AT and forcing him to rush me to help out his infantry. Eventually he gets another P4 and I have 3 T34 and katy. I think he was snooping for the katy and wasn't paying attention to my infantry that got behind him and literally just upgraded with PTRS. Got the snare and a P4 kill.
Game is heavily in my favor as I decrew him a few times and destroy weapons. He eventually gets out a stug, but he never set down mines so I loop around and rush him with 4 T34, kill stug P4 and decrew At gun.
GG
Saved muni early by stealing MG so I didn't have to call in Dshka. Allowed me to throw down mines.
I like SMG Guards but Penals seem to be better at it aside from the smoke. Cost less up front and LMG Guards are just so strong and durable. |
Now that you have peaked my interest good sir, I have a few questions.
1. Would increasing scatter help lets say the vickers suppress better?
2. Would decreasing scatter cause SMG units to drop single models faster?
3. Why is the BAR so high? I would expect it to be lower to drop models faster while the LMG to be higher so that it would do consistent damage to whole squad. |
The whole situation just seems weird, mechanized is already less popular needs more gas to put down which then allows access to mg and faust. Speeding up the availability of both mg/faust would literally kill of mechanized as a 1st tech option. |
Wanted to try and fit halftrack into my commissar build for heavy infantry pressure but alas it was not to be.
I started with T1 and sent engi to cap right side and get Gas. My first penal was sent to opposite side to cap and started building clown car to harrass. He caught me off guard with his Sturm and I was forced to retreat, came right back with clown car and forced his sturm and VG back. Noticed on Radio intercept that he made PF so I'm guessing he will go BattleGrouppe. I continue to bully his infantry and force some retreats while I decap.
Mechanized appears on radio intercept so in the back of my mind I know I need PTRS so I try to keep my car alive to get some antics going. His Luchs appears and he starts to force the fight his way. He bleeds me, but I keep pushing to try and get map back along with calling in a T70, I really wanted halftrack but I needed a spark. I catch his Luchs out of position but unable to get the kill. I start to push him a bit and Luchs shows up again. WTF is going on!
He forces me back and thats when I notice he has 2. I have PTRS but I am losing map control bad. I send my Vet2 clown car to recap gas but lose it. Shit is looking bleak and now he has a Puma. I am thinking about throwing in the towel until I get a inf wipe, he cant keep up with all his units. I make another clown car and hunt down a solo Luch, that catches his attention so I throw a satchel on another inf squad and get another wipe.
The game is going his way but I have given my self an opening. I start making a 2nd PTRS squad and he rushes my clown car to kill it with his PUMA which ends in my favor with PTRS popping up at the right time and getting me the kill. He makes another Luchs so I have more work ahead.
I end up catching another Luch riding solo so I get the kill but he kills the squad on retreat while I kill another Inf with T70. He makes one last Puma and after some back and forth he chases my T70 to base and kills my clown car. He backs off but I had a PTRS squad hiding and waiting for my chance and get off my AT satchel and get the kill. He gives up GG
Thoughts:
Despite feeling like I had no chance, it was extremely fun to play against. Getting the W made it even better.
The new portraits look pretty cool.
T70 had a lot of down time to only having 1 engineer but I was proud of using it as bait and actually getting wipes with it.
Thanks for reading, give it a watch if you have time it was pretty crazy game never dealt with that many LV in a game before.
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Started with engi/T1/clown car/Penal x3.
Sent Engi to cap while 2nd build T1, went for clown car first to reduce bleed. My last several matches OKW rushes the same gas as me. As I send engi to cap gas I see cap flashing so I redirect to cap muni while other engi goes to free gas. Clown car is sent to harass Sturmpioneer which I guessed irritated him so he chased with most of his army. I escape and repair then add flames, push him back but he gets off a snare. He rushes for the car and I rush to defend, I make it out alive and decide to get SMGs.
Repair the car and once more rush in, I take the snare on purpose since I see his Sturm are low health. Wasn't able to get the wipe but they dropped models, however his VG did get wiped while he was trying to get his MG to help out. Car is still alive so I repair it once more and rush his cutoff, notice his Schwerer building in progress so I take the snare to destroy the building with the Penal. He cancels it which is still good for me since he has to call in another truck and delay his tank even more. I send my T34 and Penal blob to his gas which is defended by single Sturm, I think he was trying to stall me until his Raks got there but I got the wipe. I then call in Airborne to decap his muni and give me some recon. His Schwerer catches me and kills a couple models on retreat which he tries to wipe with STG VG but I had my SMG Penal hiding and ended up wiping him. He quits at this point.
Game pretty much went my way once I got the first wipe, I think if he would have got Flak he could have slowed down me down a lot due to trading a Penal from AI to AT. Since he didn't I was able to snowball him.
EDIT: Title should say 2 wipes, didn't get the 3rd with SMGs, game over at 14 mins. |
The issue isn't the ability itself, it's the synergy with allied units that makes it absurdly strong. When used behind enemy tanks (especially during a dive), it instantly creates what is in effect a 'wall' which retreating vehicles can't cross. This amount of map control on a single ability is just far too much, especially when the 'activation' period is so short (i.e. the time between clicking and the first shell dropping).
Consider that during an allied charge, Axis tanks will usually need to reverse in order to maintain their armor advantage, since long-range pen isn't great on allied mediums, or because they're being zoned out by 60-range TDs. Reversing, however, places them inside the AT Overwatch, which will result in massive amounts of damage taken. Going forward also isn't an option, as it means being surrounded by allied tanks, usually giving flanking advantages - and standing still isn't much better. Even worse, slower axis tanks can effectively be 'deleted' by this ability, with no opportunity for counter play, or even a reaction because of this 'instant wall' effect.
My suggestion would be to keep the stats the same, but increase the delay before the first shell drops by a significant margine. As a result, it keeps its power about the same, and still works well as a defensive ability, but it could no longer create impassable zones instantly during diving attacks.
I am confused by your statement, are you saying an allied charge when they caught you out of position or they charged your main army. If you are caught out of position you deserve to lose the tanks, its 200 muni plus whatever they threw at you on top of flanking you. If you are talking about your main army you should have snares, mines, shreks, at guns to slow them down. The ability needs sight so even if they call it in behind you it needs sight.
Now in 3v3 or 4v4 where one of them might have recon/flares then there aint much you can do but that is the nature of bigger game modes. If you increase the initial delay you would need to significantly ramp up subsequent drops so DPS stays the same. That would be even worse for a single snared tank or a well timed ram due to the drops focusing on one tank instead of spreading out to all in the circle. |