The Stg upgrade on Volks is (balance wise) completely fine. You pay 60 muni for good close and medium range dmg increase and therefore a nice powerspike.
Whats bad about Volks is their awful "target size" with 0,77 at max vet, which translates into 520 effective HP. Compare this to Rifles 625, Cons 676 (pre upgrade) or Penals 623. On top of that they only get x1,3 accuracy with vet while having no option to get powerful lategame weaponery like dual bars or dual brens to compensate for this. But i think the bleeding part is way worse than having supbar dmg. At the end of the day Cons get 5,38 hp per manpower (reinforce), Rifle 4,46 and Penals/Volks 4,16.
I dont think it would harm balance much if Volks get a little boost on lvl 5, healing on 4 and remove the useless vision shit. But i guess there is no room for that after 3 years of putting Grens and Cons into the prime position they are now .
Not sure what you can do without messing with balance. When compared to Penals, you are not locked into a specific tech early, similar reinforce and similar HP since the increase is due to the extra man. Personally I think they should get Sprint not Pfussi due to it synergizing with both MP40 upgrade and stg upgrade. |
Do ballistics have splash damage? It could have triggered from actually hitting the tank and being within the aoe. |
I want to say from mid-game on this guy gets shitted on not really even a good game on his part. I am posting it because the dude started talking shit from the start of the game and it felt so good slapping him around. Not sure why people have to be so toxic. I had a couple wipes with SMG Penal, wiped 2 falls with mines, couple of Sturm wipes.
Started game with engi/clown car as every player I face always rushes their sturm for the cutoff. He didn't this game so I try and push him off east muni/VP, messed up and was caught between 2 Sturm and 1 VG, used penal squad to slow him down while I make my getaway to other engi to try and repair quickly. He caught me with his kubel and got the kill, he then proceeds to start calling me a noob ez game. I am unimpressed with his micro so I decide to make another car to catch him off guard. I chase down his kubel get the kill and scare off his east side infantry so I start capping and take his cutoff.
I see a lack of infantry so I am assuming either Flak or Falls, I switch out flamer for SMG penal and rush his Sturm and VG. I was hoping to catch him unaware but he was paying attention enough to get the kill almost got a wipe but he retreated in time. I proceed to mine the hell out of southern VP/muni/ lower entrance while pushing my SMG Penal behind shrub outside his entrance. I force a VG retreat and then he attempts to blob with VG/Strum and MG. I had his MG dead to rights but I didn't have enough muni for satchel so I had to retreat.
I then continue to harrass west/north side of map with a couple decaps, wipe a VG squad with SMG and catch him making his Schwerer which he has to pause or risk getting a satchel. After some back and forth he finally get his Schwerer down but it is in a horrible spot. I literally come up the rear and satchel it but only have 1 Penal(SMG) there so can't take it out. I force a low model Falls to retreat right into my Penals and get another wipe, almost get his Sturm also but I accidently issued attack command so they got demolished by the Schwerer when it finally gets sight. At other VP, his Fall is getting beat up so he retreats right into mine I just finished placing and another wipe.
From this point on the game is me getting more LMG guards and building up T34 supply. I eventually get 5 rush him but his panther gets away with the luckiest rear armor bounce I have ever seen. I lose 3 tanks but I kill a Rak, MG bunker, his Schwerer and an Inf unit or MG can't remember. I push up with infantry to stop any potential build back, kill a MG and another Falls. Game is over but he continues on until VP hits 0. GG |
Went with engi/clown car into x3 penals. I was feeling him out to see where his MG was, after seeing Grens everywhere I assumed he MG skipped. We fight back and forth with mostly even trades. I am leaning towards Soviet Shock since he is going so infantry heavy, mother russia will allow me to push him back.
He keeps spamming rifle nades which I due a decent enough job of getting out of the way. I push for his gas and in a moment of looking away he rifle nades a penal squad for a wipe. Not cool, I am also mindful of a possible scout car but he never makes it so my infantry stay at full strength. As I attempt to cap upper right side of map he surprises me with Storm camo tactical assault which drops several models before I get away. I chase him away with my shock trooper, we go back and forth a bit and he eventually kills my scout car with his at gun. However around the same time I get a Gren wipe, finally something positive. We skirmish back and forth and I happen to find his AT gun, all that muni I have been saving is about to pay off. I use "For Mother Russia" rush his At gun and get the kill, his camo Sturm trooper gets revealed and wiped while another Gren on the other side of the map gets wiped while I lose an engi squad.
Game has heavily swung my way, steal the AT gun and pretty much heal and hold on reinforcing to get my KV1 out in case his tank is on the way. Feel him out with the KV1, notice he hasn't made a tank but does have another AT gun. I pull back for repairs while attacking other areas with FMR to scare him off and let me get map control. He gets Brumbar out and wipes a Shock squad for trying to kill his AT gun. I scare off his infantry with the rest of mine before he attempts to attack my KV1. He must not have seen Pak shooting and missing him so he moves in close, get beat up by KV1 and pak. I chase his brum down and get the kill.
GG
The Brumbarr was a great idea except he lost to much to quickly before it came in. Since he knew I had KV1 I feel like he should have made Panther instead to keep my KV1 zoned out and used MP on more infantry squads to screen for Panther. |
Not really a technical game, I ended up making 3 penals and 3 Airbournes due to early game circumstances which allowed me to bully his infantry into submission. Didn't make my SMG penals so I felt a little dirty.
Started with engi/clown car, capped in both directions in case I ran into him at gas.
We fight back and forth, he makes shrek to push my car back and I make flamer for chase down wipes.
He gets one of my cutoffs with 2 VG, I fight back with 2 Penals while Flamer car fights his other VG.
He retreats late and I get 2 early VG wipes, I am floating MP but low on muni so I decide to save muni for PTRS and make Airbourne squads.
At this point I haven't seen much infantry from him so I am expecting a FLAK, so I get PTRS car ready and wait for him to mess up.
I make another Airbourne squad to stall him from stealing left side gas and send my army in that direction so he will counter with flak, I hold onto PTRS car. I hear an engine through fog of war, rush in as soon as I see it and get the kill.
Game is in my hands, got good MP and decide to make 3rd Airbourne, 1 is going to have LMG other 2 with SMG for camo and smoke since he has made JLI and MG. I think he expects a T70, so he makes 2 raks, which I catch out of position and destroy with PTRS chip damage and satchel. I pretty much decide to stall for T34 and just keep bullying him with numbers.
I push here and there with T34 and I decide to bait him, I send T34 "alone" to push MG protecting left VP while sending 2 penal and guard squad around forest to try and catch anything out of position. His mg suppresses me but I find what I am looking for. 2 raks start shooting at my T34, I think he got tunnel vision since he didn't see satchel until to late. Got double wipe and capture.
He makes JP4 but game is heavily in my favor, any time something goes his way I get him back harder. BUT, RNGesus tries to step in, I rush his JP4, ram it, at strafe it and get behind it with remaining T34. I think my shooter was drinking Vodka, hit everything but the tank and lose it. I also forgot to move my raks forward early enough to clean up so his JP4 gets away with sliver of health. I did manage to wipe an Ober and steal LMG so not all bad I guess.
I am not really worried since his JP4 is useless until I make another tank and I have raks in case he decides to get frisky.
From here on out he pushes, I slap him back into place and he attacks else where. I remake T34's and pretty much bleed him out. He never makes another deep push due to lack of Infantry despite having JP4 and now P4J. GG
Watching the replay, he had enough to call in P4J earlier but he didn't and made mechanized instead. I think that really put him behind since his P4J wiped a Guard squad and caused good bleed in general.
Him going for 2 raks in anticipation of T70 screwed him, losing 3 raks with 2 getting captured was a back breaker.
SMG Guards are nice but really muni intensive despite being free, to get in best position the suppress strafe is what 45muni and grenade to try and get a wipe is another 35. They should have just kept tactical assault.
I never made Dshka since I already outnumbered him, didnt really want something to slow me down. |
Shoutout to Spitfire, win or lose always a fun game.
Decided I was making SMG penals no matter what, havent made them in a while and needed my fix. Opened with engi/clown car. Found a single VG and doubled him with engi behind cover and clown car to the side. I pushed him back and went for decap with with clown car but ran into his entire army so had to hightail it out of there.
Sent Penal squad to help out and managed to sent his sturm packing but he managed to get my cutoff at the same time with a VG squad. We go back and forth but he isn't outnumbering me so I assume he is rushing Flak or saving for elite unit. I harass middle VP and notice he has a slightly damaged Sturm Pio decapping a VP point. I redirect my SMG Penal clown car, catch him on his own and press step on it ASAP to get the chase down wipe.
His Flak is zoning me out from his gas and cutoff but he needs to rebuild sturm so I am able to get some map control back. I get a PTRS Penal for clown car shenanigans but he does a great job zoning me out with infantry so I can't really do anything about it. I decide to get LMG Guards to try and bleed him on any charges while maintaining distance in case his Flak happens to be in the area.
I finally get my T34 out and first order of business is catching his Flak. He manages to kill my SMG Penal with a 2 on 1 but at the same time I rush his Flak and get the kill, can now be more aggresive with infantry. I send my T34 to stop a decap but didn't notice his rak was there to catch me off guard. He got 2 shots off but no snare so I retreat to base. He chases me down with P4J but my low health low model PTRS squad was there to scare him off.
I repair and try to plan next attack, I sent both of my LMG airborne to protect north VP while my PTRS Clown car and 2 T34 went hunting for the P4J. I found him and he get 2 good hits on 1 T34 but up north I wiped his Strum squad again. I decide it is go time and call in Airstrike which he dodges by moving forward towards me, I ram him while my PTRS squad keeps chipping at him and 2nd T34 pulls up for rear hits. Got the kill and GG. |
Vehicle Sight: Makes sense, tanks should not be operating like 1 man armies even if they are highly vetted or premium.
Vehicle damage: I don't really like the idea of more RNG.
Vehicle HP and mobility: The main issue I see is TD become even more valuable, if Tanks becomes slower and more deliberate TD will constantly zone them out of a fight with their extreme range. The Jackson would probably need a massive price increase due to being open top/long/range/turret/speed combo.
Other issue might be a greater preference for "premium tanks" compared to the stock counter parts. For Soviet, KV1 would be godly since it would be able to take a hit and most likely bounce it compared to anything else in that price range while also being able to hit back even if it is inconsistent. P4J, Easy8 and Comet would be the choices for OST, USF and UKF respectively. OKW would be the only one unaffected due to their tech structure.
I like your idea about team weapons, spamming them is a major issue in team games.
HMG: I think they could do both damage and suppression. For damage all mg could be changed to have 30-40 degree cone of fire so that they are more easily flanked however you get mauled if your in the fire area. Then as a toggle that requires pack up and reset that puts the MG in suppression mode, a much wider cone can be used with massively reduced lethality but supression applied. Also the cone could be made shorter than damage mode to allow counter play from slow firing long range specialist like JLI/Pathfinders.
Mortars: Maybe Auto fire is the damage dealer and barrage applies suppression with slow firing shells that due reduced damage but much larger AOE. |
Nice, I made a nice comprehensive post-responce and got rekt by a log out, when I clicked "Reply"
But in short: combination of performance and survivability of the unit is too good and I don't think this unit is an issue in 1v1. Currently imo it is the best mobile light indirect in the game by far, while having no weaknesses whatsoever.
I agree, its survivability is absurd for how hard it hits. 1v1 no big deal, maybe even 2v2, but once mg walls can be made it most cancerous.
I personally think raks are similar, they themselves are not great but the ability to fuck up bad and just 1 click retreat out of a mistake is dumb. To combat the actual survivability of the unit i think there should be a pak up delay when retreat is issued. Anywhere from 1/2 second to a full second before the unit begins retreat animation. OR maybe slow down the packing up of the weapon animation if that is possible. |
And if it had died... would you have been able to go back and re-crew it?
These silly situational examples are the bane of this forums' balance talks.
Was on Faymonville, right outside of my base so I could have recrewed it, my most recent replay posted.
For more context, the guy decided to play very turtley, I saw he had built a reinforce bunker behind central house and he also built 2 mg. Outside of his gas and central building he did not push, he was building mines and trying to make his own little fort. Due to his passive nature I am floating massive MP so I go for double mortars and a squad of Shock Troopers after that.
He had multiple chances to counter
1. He had access to mortars but never made them, he also had mortar HT available but he never choose commander
2. I have no mg since I went T1, he could push at any time
3. He never made LV, would have forced a Penal to get PTRS giving him INF advantage
The point of the post was that I chuckled when it happened because I saw in real time what Gachi was talking about, however at no point was the unit itself OP. The opponent refused to change their strategy and paid for it which seems to be part of the problem. A lot of people don't want to deviate from what they are used to. |
Pretty good game on my part boring on his, guy decided to turtle so I made 2 120mm mortars and pretty much bullied him from that point forward.
Went with engi/car opening and started capping noticed he had 2 engi so I assumed he would make 1 less gren and either PG or MG. He went for center VP and building control so I played around him and kept control of as much map as possible including both muni points. He seemed to be turtling hard so I decided to wait out for mortars.
From the moment I got mortars, he seemed to have no answer. After some poking I saw he had made a reinforcement bunker which I started bombarding and pushing and eventually got with satchel. Since He is so passive I was able to get 2nd mortar due to minimal MP bleed and finally shocks. I bully most of the map from him until he gets his 1st tank out and he starts to push. Takes me a tiny bit to get T3485 since most of my units were so expensive and I want to keep pressure on. I eventually get my tank out but nothing exciting happens.
I continue to bombard him and he doesn't adjust his gameplan, even making another reinforcement bunker outside of his gas. Deciding moment happens when we both get 3 tanks but I catch him out of position and kill all 3 despite RNG best job of having my tanks hit ground or bounce.
GG |