PTRS is meant as an upgrade to keep penals threatening vs LVs and PzIVs (+AT satchel). It has never been a counter all Axis armour weapon and it's a bad Axis player who lets themselves get satcheled barring some fantastic plays.
With penals you get a very powerful 6 man, almost grenadier level dps squad that can outmuscle any inf squad 1v1 except SPs. You trade this for weak scaling lategame, including in the AT department. The PTRS has been buffed to make it much more responsive and require less 'set up' time before each shot, now comparable to other AT inf weapons.
4 man AT squads are generally poor at their jobs (See pzgren schrecks), as would CEs. As it stands there's nothing wrong with the current penal PTRS squad imho.
PTRS has 40 range already, matching Pz IV/Luchs.
Just so you know you keep posting incorrect data despite me telling you otherwise, it’s not the first time you have done that with respect to penal squads. Read the feb patch notes. It was changed and modified at vet2. For their cost they shouldn’t have to scale bad. That line of thinking makes no sense and part of the change was to address that but it didn’t fully fix it.
After playing them for a few months I think their main issue is VET. At Vet2 you have pretty much unlocked all of their performance. An extra 20% acc and cheaper satchel is pathetic for VET3. On top of that their Vet does not really give them any performance enhancement as an AT squad. They don't get extra damage/gun range/satchel range/re-enforce cost with vet. Extra acc means little due to PTRS acc and vehicle target size.
If there is another patch it will most likely be small so I would assume a small change for the unit. My suggestion would be a 10% rec acc buff as part of the upgrade so that they could be more aggressive and dont bleed you dry when they are.
My wish would be the ability to stow the upgrade away similar to minesweeper. That way if a vehicle is no longer around you don't have a useless unit around. It would also allow for some creative flanks and dives.
I think I have pissed off RNG gods lately, had a few games were tanks bounced everything. Lost this match but felt RNG was pretty fair. Tried to be as aggressive as possible but due to know AT back tech KV8 couldn/t be as aggressive as I would have liked.
The 222, for only 30 fuel and the cost of a penal squad does everything the T-70 does but arguably even better relative to it's measly cost.It is almost immune to small arms fire, only being vulnerable to SMG-wielding infantry at point-blank when it's rear armor is exposed.It is often said that it's AI is garbage, but overtime it stacks on damage and forces squads away just like a T-70 does.
It forces SOV build orders almost entirely around countering it near the 5-minute mark.You get a infantry harraser that can easily outrun ultra-lights and destroy them without much effort, and it usually fucks over T1 SOV builds really hard forcing them into a early PTRS upgrade(noob trap)/build a early T2 for ZiS(meaning you're gonna be starving for manpower early game)/use a doctrinal AT gun such as M42(terrible in the long run) or airdropped support weapons from the Soviet Reserve commander which lacks premium tanks/arty strikes.
30F 280+MP is not a investement, and it pays off if it survives as if it costs atleast twice it's actual cost due to it's insane veterancy bonuses especially if you combine them with cancerous spotting scopes.The 222 has passive extra sight range unlike the T-70 which has to use a ability for it.It barely delays a P4 rush, which almost all OST players have been doing for the past 4 years, whilst a T-70 severely delays the T-34 timing.
Also, spotting scopes are truly cancerous and should be removed, I played a match yesterday on Port of Hamburg northern side, with my forces on mid.I placed my vet 3 T-70 behind a ZiS to spot for it behind mid, looking into the fog of war waiting for the OST player to attack me, what actually followed is that I saw a round fly out of the FoW and instakill my T-70 on Recon mode without me ever spotting what actually shot at me(it was a elefant).That Elefant was given more sight range than me by a P4 with spotting scopes even tho a P4 shouldn't be able to see farther than a actual recon unit.I have more than double his playtime, so if you ever wonder how easy it is to play OST there you go.
Everything you said is great in a vacuum but not entirely true. I have beaten back a scout car with not upgraded Penals, it actually take quite a bit of damage with decent positioning or an overly aggressive OST player. A lot of high end players even seem to ignore it and completely put off getting AT package/molotov upgrade even though it is signicantly cheaper than it used to be. The META now is pretty much pushing them off with any one of the regular guards commanders.
I don't think it is bad just seems strange to rush since the power spike is small, I feel getting mg->4 grens is better than mg->3 grens scout car rush.
I ran around with cons and built sandbags. the 222 was no threat. for 2 min i just stalled with the cons with at nades. t70 arrived. the pak missed. the t70 then covered the flanks. then i built elite inf and a katyuscha.
once i saw where the paks and mg were, i fired the katyuscha, forced the pak to reposition or even decrewed it , then i moved in my blob and had map control
One thing I have never understood is the hard-on for rushing a 222, it is legit trash unless rng rolls your way or it hits vet2.
On another note I was thinking of you when I was full on raging yesterday. I am on a 6 game losing streak where 3 of those games were decided by some of the worst RNG I have ever seen. Rear shots on P5 bouncing(game probably registered as side), another game 3 shots on P4 out of position by IS2 and 2 T3485 missing or bouncing, I even had 2 Vetted Penals squads get beaten away by a non-vetted ober out of cover. Shit was insane. Not gonna lie I was like this is probably what Donnie feels like. Shit I even went to sleep angry promising to uninstall the goddamn game. Still pissed but it is the only RTS I play so got to just deal with it.
For anybody I played yesterday GG, sorry for being so salty.
Just watched it, you came in frustrated and yea some of the misses sucked but you were being extremely aggressive with your early gren play. That really messed you up and early losses obviously messed with Scout car timing. You should do some AssG strats since most soviet players seem to conscript spam straight to guards and T70. Hell it seems that AT package is delayed so double AssG in halftrack could cause havoc. Also the early muni saving can be used for both mine types to protect flanks and help funnel LV to your AT.
I chalking up most of your issues to frustration since you don't get that high in rank by luck. I did have one question why did you make 2nd pioneer so early? Since he was spamming so much inf a 2nd MG would have helped out since you were so muni starved to upgrade grens.
Had a match a bit earlier with him, felt like we played decently against each other but his models wouldn't drop. Got 3 units to half health with only 2 model drops. Needless to say I lost due to early MP drain and LV loss.
Had a feeling he would try same strat so I switched to 2 engi opening and clown car to harrass. Decent job, we went back and forth but he was pushing decent. When he went for my cutoff, I satcheled an AssG which gave me some leeway. Also made PTRS since I knew he was going to get a halftrack again. Worked out well and I started to control the map.
He went for StugE which I was able to 1v1 with clown car. Lost car right after, he made another StugE at the same time as my T34. I flanked him yet lost due to 2 bounces at point blank and a miss. This caught me off guard, I know the T34 is trash but damn it always seems to surprise me. He took momentum as I built up T34 blob and I try to avoid his AT guns. I flank him again and PTRS Penals again do what my tanks can't. I expect to see regular tanks but he keeps making more E models so I guess he is waiting for his chance to be able to get Tiger.
Little bit later I flank him and he loses both StugE and I lose both my T34, sucks but most of his strat revolves around StugE softening me up for his pushes. I keep flanking him and stealing his MG so I pretty much spread them out while hitting him with a blob so that he is forced to respond. PTRS Penals also kill a 3rd StugE by this point so he eventually switches to stalling for tiger but it is to late and I win.
this isnt about comparing at guns, it's about the only chance for wehr to survive midgame is to position pak correctly vs light vehicles. When the pak misses in those situations it's frustrating and a almost a guaranteed lose
Every faction has that problem, you are not losing due to a random missed shot. The only thing you can control is your positioning and AT support. RNG has a heavy hand in all aspects and we just try to minimize as much as possible. You win some you lose some, I know how it feels I have lost several games where I have done everything right but game decides my shooters/drivers are drunk. I literally blobbed attacked a snared rear facing panther and due to my T34 firing on the "move" I missed about 6 shots or more in a row. Took all 4 to kill his panther and guess what I lost. I was pissed but its part of the game. I have also had games where all my T34 shots frontally penned a Tiger, worked for me but opponent was probably cursing my name.
Looking at your thoughts on AT accuracy, you are pretty much wanting to remove the light vehicle phase. Any higher chance of hitting literally makes every midgame LV useless. This would heavily benefit WEHR as they have the weakest LV so skipping them is not as impactful which to compensate would mean nerfing other parts of the faction.
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