All right sir, Challenge accepted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35rkBbK6-w
[game played by peter (one of the devs) after the patch.]
Specifically look at 23:40 to 23:50. The german pushes out of his base with a huge blob, leading with schrek'd pgrens.
What happens is this:
- Just to clarify so you don't ask... the conscripts shoot at the pgrens for a little while at first before retreating, but the amount they contributed is very small and has no effect on the point I am trying to illustrate.
- First shot of SU-85 kills one squad member of the pgren squad.
- Third shot takes out two more pgren squad members, bringing it down to one man with a slither of hp left, after which the last member is killed by antoher su85 shot.(the camera moves away, but you can see it dying cos it dissapears from the UI, and nothing else was shooting at them at that time. The shocks only arrive after they are dead.)
Bear in mind that this happened at long range. The SU-85 is even more accurate at sniping at closer ranges (i.e. the range the schreks have to be to shoot it).
(I know the german guy blobbed but this has no effect on proving my point since the SU85 was shooting at the pgrens which were in front.)
Now if this doesn't show to you in the most clearest of ways that su85's do snipe pgrens, I don't know what will.
My point is they shouldn't be so damn effective at killing their own hard counter.
Ok sure, you weren't that guy on pripiyat so i'm not mad at you lol  I don't remember the game but you must have out played me then. I do often try new freaky builds so it could always have been a scenario like that.
Now, all that being said I do have some good news. I tried out using stugs vs su85's last night and got quite some success. The lag between issuing orders and units responding has been greatly improved. I find stugs used with panzer tactition quite effective at keeping su85's at bay. Stugs should still have longer range, but it has been a step in the right direction to make them harder to hit at least(smaller target size).
Using the stugs takes more micro than it takes to micro the SU-85 though, so I still feel the complaints about the SU-85 have good grounds. It's damage is fine. Its ability to snipe pgrens and paks is pure bullshit. Its reverse speed is too damn high. If they fix the reverse and sniping problems then they have done a lot already. Its range is debatable but I dont see why in the world it should out range a stug.
Mkay. I can see now the ground for your statements. But, imho,these are just two damn lucky critical shots that might happen from time to time (cant remember having this luck myself). I will try to make a special vid for you as i'm now even more interested in carrying out this test myself. |
Look at what Hissy said above..
Clearly you haven't played much ostheer. The Su85 will snipe pgrens. Im not saying it always happens, but 3/4 times I cant kill the su85 cos too many of my pgren squad members got sniped. Note this is a lone su85 with a lone pgren approaching it(thus no other support factors). You can also go look at ace's post in the su85 thread to see it's insanely low scatter values for yourself (lower than all other tanks). There were also a number of videos posted in that thread showing how su85 outright wins vs paks.
No reason to get personal, there is general consensus that SU85 needs looking at. By the way, are you the guy who spammed m3 and snipers+guards into su85 on pripiyat? No further comments lol.
No one asked for it to be nerfed to shit. It merely needs a balancing tweak, or the ostheer equivalent(Stug) needs an appropriate tweak. The vanilla t34 also needs a buff so no-one is asking for "only german buffs and russian nerfs" or some bullshit like that. I play Russians too. It also remains to be seen if the target size reduction on the stug will have any real effect on the current meta which always ends up in p4 vs su85.
U know what? Let's make a test. Just bring the squad of grens close to su and get it to at least a light cover. Post the replay so we could all see how much time it will take for the su to destroy those grens. Even more, we could do the same with pgrens and just see what happens. Fair enough?
I'm not the guy spamming snipers, guards and sus. It may sound akward, but i mostly play soviet t3. And that wasn't Pripyat' for sure. It was a map with suburbs or smth. |
lol just bad luck, I saw an SU85 trade blows with an MG42 the other day and it was hilarious. they went on for like three minutes without scratching each other till the mg retreated.
bottom line: odd shots happen (with other every tank as well) but no soviet player in is own mind will ever count on or expect an SU to kill infantry
Very true! |
Regardless of his ability to play the game, SU-85s have a very nasty habit of sniping Infantry at all ranges. In fact I had a situation where I lost an entire Panzergren Squad (Shrecked) to one single shell. Another situation in the same game 4 Pioneers dead in 4 shots, one on retreat. They do snipe Infantry and if you don't believe they do you obviously have no experience playing Osteer.
Ass ppl complaining about OP su's seem like they have never played sovites. I can agree with that. |
Not only is su85 a td counter, it is an everything counter, even its own counter(snipes pgrens/pak40)
OMFG. Will u eventually stfu with ur nonsense? IT DOES NOT SNIPE INFANTRY! In fact it is totally useless against it. I'm pretty sure I've played against you a week ago or so (if u have the same steam name) and completely owned wihtout getting even close to SU's. If I'm right, then u're just bad at this game, and that pretty much explains ur whining. As if all u crying ppl wanted a WIN button to be added. |
What exactly is the issue with the damage per shot? The PZIV is supposed to be good vs other medium tanks (the T34/76 and T34/85) and decent vs infantry. The T34 is the opposite, good vs infantry and decent vs medium tanks.
So in this patch, the devs have decreased the PZ1V's ai making it less viable as the only tier 3/4 purchase for Ost. Now you need to have more combined arms instead of spamming the PZIV.
Complaining that the T-34 sucks against the PZIV is a waste of time, because it is not supposed to counter the PZIV in this game.
Then why cry about su-85 owning PIV when it is indeed supposed to be like that? |
It has speed, range and accuracy beyond any AT solution at that point in the game. Its not insanely OP, but it is extremely efficient for its price of 66 fuel.
It will outrange the faust AND the shrek. It will enemy soldiers in 2 hits. Even when it misses, it has a small chance to hit and/or damage the enemy. Its a great unit.
U r totally right saying it is a great unit. but let's be honest, even with effective micro, it can rule over the map for 3-5 minutes before it is countered, however, it not only delays the construction of heavier tanks, but also almost likely negates the use of SUs due to high amount of fuel required to build both buildings and actually start the production, giving u some solid advantage later on, cuz we all know t-34s, to say the least, are not quite good at countering german armor. In this case, we get the opposite situation with one difference: it wont last for only 5 minutes, but for the whole lategame. |
yeah but you don't see 6 panthers in a game because of the cost. the T70 is too good for its cost.
and why is that? T-70s are very easily handled by grens' panzerfausts and, as it have already been mentioned, wihtout their speed they're totally useless. Though they can get really nasty if u dont have those grens with p-fausts, focusing on spamming mgs, but that would be ur problem, wouldnt it? And, as again has been stated above, that fancy armored car with autocannon upgrade can be efficiently used against t-70. See, many ways of countering. imho the situation with countering german tanks is far more important at this stage. |
I've seen team games with T70 spam and they just rip through everything, especially weapons teams nearly instantly. These little tanks are too good and need a look at. I think a fuel cost increase would not be amiss (along with the pak fix)
In the same manner i could say all the german tanks are OP cuz they tear everything apart from SU-85s, given they're well microed. |
You go own the companyofheroes/forums people are bitching, you come onto these forums, people are bitching. The T70 does NOT one shot squads, are you people even serious when you write, or you just stupid? Shreks wreck the T70 in 2 volleys, Panzer IV's wreck the T70, Pak wreck the T70, Flakpanzer wreck the T70, stugs wreck the T70 shit any T3 unit will destroy it. ALSO the turret upgrade on the scout car is VERY effective vs it (try it and see for yourself.) Hell, grenadiers with there grenades will it least slow it down, and a slow T70 is a dead one. I expect a more serious discussion from these forums, and this was just a joke. The T70 is fine, the game is new and people don't know what OP is because people haven't learned the game enough.
Totally agree. It seems, most of these threads are created by those who cant just accept being outplayed and that's all. |
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