Grens are better than cons. Cons are more wipe resistant. Grens are extremely efficient, Cons suck without ppsh as the game progresses.
All the HMGs are fine and balanced. Maybe change the vet 1 on Maxim like Luciano suggested.
I don’t know what you guys are arguing about. |
I just don't understand why people are so opposed to giving Tommies a snare.
Yes, they're the best mainline infantry in the game - but they also require, by FAR the most investment.
Out of the gate they're extremely expensive, they're horrible at flanking because of their atrocious accuracy on the move, and as Firesparks has pointed out you have to spend precious fuel AND 90 munis to keep them competitive with Grenadiers as the game progresses. Yet Grenadier faust, unlike every other infantry-based hard snare in the game, isn't gated by tech/time.
Did people forget how much OKW struggled against light vehicles back in the day because of this exact lack of snare?
The ONLY reliable snare UKF has is on a research based light vehicle that isn't particularly durable or effective against infantry, AND that snare isn't pseduo-permanent like faust/AT nade/etc.
If you don't want to give Tommies snare, at least give it to sappers in some form. But I don't think that'd be enough. They're already too busy repairing/planting mines/sweeping mid/late game.
Another overlooked problem between UKF and other factions is their inability to terraform the map early game. Not being able to lay wire to deny important green cover/flanking routes is brutal for a faction that relies on engaging in cover and (preferably) at max range at all times.
Furthermore, tying snare to the grenade tech, UKF players will still have to invest EVEN MORE into Tommies to even let them snare in the first place.
Sometimes I just don't even... at the risk of sounding frustrated by people's logic let me lay it out the way it sounds:
1) Hey we know UKF is objectively the weakest 1v1 faction in the game.
2) Dang, they really struggle at actually killing tanks and can get flanked more easily than any other faction because EVERY other faction has a mainline infantry based snare to punish over-extensions.
3) Should we add a snare to UKF? Nope.
Edit: Even if Tommies get a snare, the faction is still going to struggle against HMGs, snipers, and have arguably the weakest assortment of tanks to choose from. Centaur is passable, but a shadow of what it used to be. Cromwell is probably the weakest overall medium in the game and the Firefly is slow, expensive, has an atrocious rate of fire, and requires a huge munitions investment to keep up with other TDs. Comets are hardly worth the cost. Churchills are nice, but difficult to get to in a 1v1. Probably their strongest tank these days though. |
Thread: OKW UP?23 Jun 2018, 06:59 AM
OKW is probably the second best faction in the game at the moment, behind Ost. Although it is more of OKW has an advantage over USF, relatively even with Sov but struggles against UKF. Ost has an advantage against UKF, maybe a slight advantage against Sov, but struggles vs USF on all but a few maps.
The way I see it: you have to adapt your play to what you're facing.
Against USF you want to play somewhat defensive early, secure your side and make sure rifles don't bleed you hard. Rifles can't really push Volks in green cover, especially if you're using your Sturms properly to sneak around and swing fights in your favor.
Against Soviet you want to play a bit more aggressive. Volks are extremely efficient against Cons, keep them off fuel to delay their T70. Adapt your tech choices to their tech (generally I prefer 251 Flak against T1 Sov openers and Luch against T2).
Never get schreks on your sturms. You need the sweepers. You need the repair speed.
Don't rush your Sturms in headlong like they're some sort of god unit. If they have to close the gap, they're probably going to lose to anything except REs/Combat Engis. Keep them being sneaky and supporting your Volks.
MG34s can help a ton against infantry sections, guards, penals, and vetted double BAR rifles - all of which will give your Volks problems.
Keep your rak guarding your 251 or Luchs at all times, both of these units are keys to your mid game.
Don't be afraid to throw Volk nades to help win early fights. STGs are nice, but winning the map early is better. Just don't throw the nade and then retreat. Throw it if you know it'll win you that fight/force a retreat.
Volks almost always want to be stationary, at max range, in green cover. (This is the main key to almost all infantry play with the exception of a few squads using sub machine guns.)
Build sandbags with Volks while you're capping.
That's probably it as for the basics. A replay would be of more use to point out specifics in what you're doing wrong. |
hence "soft" snare.
the point is really how an actual snare would make all those functionally obsolete.
Soviet has button and the satchel snare, but AT nades don't make those obsolete. You won't always have an infantry unit in range and in the place you need the snare. Even more so with Brits given the inability to have as many sections running around as Cons.
Same with Ost and target weak point.
Same with USF and Stuart. |
I think the IS2 is used more due to axis TDs lacking pen rather than the IS2 being good.... That and the possibility it can RNG wipe squads.
I wasn’t making a statement regarding the balance of the IS2, I was pointing out that it is used a lot and is in one of the most popular Soviet commanders.
Burmie used it against me as well just a couple days ago. It’s a really good unit, maybe slightly too good. But again, not the point. Just pointing out Katitof isn’t necessarily up to date on the state of 1v1s with a statement like he made. |
When was the last time you have seen IS-2 used by anyone?
Do people even remember how it looks?
You're much more likely to see high armor axis vehicle then allied one(unless you count KV-1 here as well as that's pretty decent one).
https://www.coh2.org/replay/81049/playing-okw-against-sov-increases-blood-pressure
Armored Assault is one of the most popular Sov commanders currently.
IS2 is used a lot, probably saw play in GCS last weekend but I didn't watch every game. |
That is why I emphasized the aspect of creating a thread for them and them only. Now in regards to the suggested buffs, I agree. These will make Brits a viable faction. However, when these elements are added, some changes need to be made in order for Brits to not become batshit overpowered and too competent. Mainly; double lmg performance needs to be towned down and if a snare is added, then the 6 pounder needs to be less competent.
Otherwise, I agree with your statements.
Yeah, that's fair. I don't know that I'd tone down double LMGs any more though. They're already the worst upgrade in the game. Maybe nerf IS vet a bit instead? If you tone them down more, I don't think they'll be worth it. |
It would be interesting to hear from the actual players that played the Brits last weekend or played against them. However, they always seem to avoid these threads like the plague.
Perhaps create a thread especially for them?
At risk of sounding like an elitist douche... most top players feel like they're wasting their time explaining issues in detail when rank 1,000 fanboys come and tell you why you're wrong because some numbers on a spreadsheet theoretically MIGHT make their argument valid. But theory and practice don't always line up.
The biggest issue Brits have at the moment, in my opinion, are their difficulty in killing tanks (lack of snare) and difficulty in doslodging HMGs/pushing into green cover (lack of indirect fire).
Fix those two, and you'd probably have a decent enough faction even with current stats on units. If you buff other things instead of fixing inherent game mechanic flaws, you're going to go back to a gimmicky UKF crutching on overpowered stuff like Cromwell spam, Centaurs wiping like crazy, Land Mattress erasing armies, Commandos 1 shotting anything they come within 10 yards of, etc. |
AT tommies BOYS rifle is the same as guards PTRS, so it is useful vs infantry.
Remember that they are "good enough" that modders attempted to nerf them out of the game by nerfing their AT nade, disallowing utility upgrade and disallowing bolster to affect them.
The AT rifle has roughly 1/3 the DPS of lee enfields at all ranges.
Guards have a broken vet 1 ability and DPs, DPs providing most of their AI damage output - a whopping 6x the dps of PTRS at max range and still more DPS than PTRS at minimum range.
That's fine, the AT rifles/PTRS should be mostly for killing vehicles, not infantry. But I don't agree that AT sections are useful against infantry. |
Buff Royal Artillery Valentine and reduce commander points to make it soft counter to Luchs / 222 , and an annoyance to medium Armour anyone?
I mean... isn't the AEC a hard counter to Luchs / 222 and an annoyance to medium armor?
I'd rather see the Valentine being a light vehicle capable of killing infantry decently well (ayyy it can crush tho!), and the rest of that commander to not suck. |