British snare problem and potential fixes

I have an idea (like my 4 years old son says :wub, why not give IS a snare (like every other faction has on their mainline infantry) ?????
I know, its very hard to think of this, i must be very smart.

While I understand the desire to separate abilities from each other so one unit can’t do everything, I think it’s important to remember that mainline infantry units are supposed to do just that. Each faction in CoH2 and vCoH had one basic infantry unit that could be equipped or upgraded to basically do anything or everything, just not as well as a specialist unit.

If having PIATs on a unit that can snare is OP, then why isn’t this already a problem with Riflemen with bazookas and AT riflegrenades? Button on IS once upgraded to Brens wouldn’t be op, because it would just be like Riflemen with AT riflegrenades having BARs. Same for Sappers having PIATs and an AT grenade, if that’s so OP than why aren’t Bazooka Riflemen OP?

Snares for British nondoctrinal squads isn’t an op concept, but implementation is key and other things may need adjustment as well.


Add Sapper AT sticky bomb, THAT UNLOCKS WHEN YOU TECH FOR MILLS BOMBS.
Add Button ability to Infantry Sections, THAT UNLOCKS ONLY WHEN EQUIPPED WITH AT LEAST ONE BREN GUN AND ONLY WORKS FOR INFANTRY SECTIONS, NOT COMMANDOS OR ANY ORHER SQUADS.

A. TECHING FOR WEAPONS RACKS GETS A COST INCREASE.
B. BUYING INDIVIDUAL BREN GUNS AND PIATS GETS A COST INCREASE.
C. TECHING FOR MILLS BOMBS/STICKY BOMBS GETS A COST INCREASE.

.....sorry for yelling, I just think that a lot of people are assuming things that aren’t what was proposed, which is why I thought I should clarify my statements.

While I understand the desire to separate abilities from each other so one unit can’t do everything, I think it’s important to remember that mainline infantry units are supposed to do just that. Each faction in CoH2 and vCoH had one basic infantry unit that could be equipped or upgraded to basically do anything or everything, just not as well as a specialist unit.

If having PIATs on a unit that can snare is OP, then why isn’t this already a problem with Riflemen with bazookas and AT riflegrenades? Button on IS once upgraded to Brens wouldn’t be op, because it would just be like Riflemen with AT riflegrenades having BARs. Same for Sappers having PIATs and an AT grenade, if that’s so OP than why aren’t Bazooka Riflemen OP?

Snares for British nondoctrinal squads isn’t an op concept, but implementation is key and other things may need adjustment as well.


Add Sapper AT sticky bomb, THAT UNLOCKS WHEN YOU TECH FOR MILLS BOMBS.
Add Button ability to Infantry Sections, THAT UNLOCKS ONLY WHEN EQUIPPED WITH AT LEAST ONE BREN GUN AND ONLY WORKS FOR INFANTRY SECTIONS, NOT COMMANDOS OR ANY ORHER SQUADS.

A. TECHING FOR WEAPONS RACKS GETS A COST INCREASE.
B. BUYING INDIVIDUAL BREN GUNS AND PIATS GETS A COST INCREASE.
C. TECHING FOR MILLS BOMBS/STICKY BOMBS GETS A COST INCREASE.

.....sorry for yelling, I just think that a lot of people are assuming things that aren’t what was proposed, which is why I thought I should clarify my statements.

I fear your attempt to make the british better is to just copy ability from another faction.

At nade snare should be the last resort. Buff their existing tools like their tanks and PIAT instead.

Could just make AT tommies non doctrinal and buildable out of t2 or t3.

They suck against other infantry, can’t take medic/arty upgrade and are only useful for the snare. Hell, they’re not even great against vehicles. It’s also a low workload solution. The squad is already in the game.

I’d rather just give tommies a snare upon researching grenades. Why do people think that would be OP but rifles carrying double BAR, LMG grens, volks, guards, ppsh cons and having snares are fine? Tommies are good, great even but require extreme investment to out perform LMG grens and vetted Volks, while also being less flexible.

Edit: Falls have snare and can paradrop anywhere on the map and can stealth but they’re hardly OP. Ost’s Jaegar command squad can sprint and snare and has an extra model over grens and comes out of the box with g43s. I hardly think giving tommies a fuel based upgrade snare would break the game.

That, or add it as a third upgrade option. Medics, Pyrotechnics, Snares.

That, or add it as a third upgrade option. Medics, Pyrotechnics, Snares.

I'd actually favor this option, though I'd tweak it.

Third upgrade would be Tank Hunter Package, includes 2x Boys AT rifles, HEAT grenade, (tracking). Give it a 60MU cost and call it a day.

Of course buffs or adjustments for preexisting units and weapons wouldn't be out of line.

As for a replacement in Special Weapons, perhaps we can give upgraded IS further utility, such as Button Vehicle (Bren) or Camouflage (PIAT/Boys)

I'd actually favor this option, though I'd tweak it.

Third upgrade would be Tank Hunter Package, includes 2x Boys AT rifles, HEAT grenade, (tracking). Give it a 60MU cost and call it a day.

Of course buffs or adjustments for preexisting units and weapons wouldn't be out of line.

As for a replacement in Special Weapons, perhaps we can give upgraded IS further utility, such as Button Vehicle (Bren) or Camouflage (PIAT/Boys)

+1

I like it. If you make Tankhunter Infantry Sections nondoctrinal, I think it should be an upgrade, not a separate squad.

Just replace the tank hunter section in the doctrine with something else. ( Sapper flamethrowers maybe? Or does it already have that? Or maybe the valentine tank just so it gets more use. The valentine is so cool it’s a shame that it sucks so bad and is tied to a rather crappy doctrine.)

I'd actually favor this option, though I'd tweak it.

Third upgrade would be Tank Hunter Package, includes 2x Boys AT rifles, HEAT grenade, (tracking). Give it a 60MU cost and call it a day.

Of course buffs or adjustments for preexisting units and weapons wouldn't be out of line.

As for a replacement in Special Weapons, perhaps we can give upgraded IS further utility, such as Button Vehicle (Bren) or Camouflage (PIAT/Boys)

the AT tommies frankly suck. Even before the PIAT turn into heat seeker the BOY rifle were barely adequate.

All this obsession with the AT nade is distracting from the fact the british's current kit isn't that great after all the nerfs they have taken. Firefly extremely high cost, Comet underwhelming, PIAT underwhelming, Gammon bomb impractical, cromwell underwhelm.

Adding the Snare isn't going to suddenly fix the British. We need to look at what's already available to the british and identify their weak links.

the AT tommies frankly suck. Even before the PIAT turn into heat seeker the BOY rifle were barely adequate.

All this obsession with the AT nade is distracting from the fact the british's current kit isn't that great after all the nerfs they have taken. Firefly extremely high cost, Comet underwhelming, PIAT underwhelming, Gammon bomb impractical, cromwell underwhelm.

Adding the Snare isn't going to suddenly fix the British. We need to look at what's already available to the british and identify their weak links.

The AT tommies become quite obsolete after medium tanks hit the field, yes. Against light vehicles they work just fine (essentially a stopgap unit). If they were buffed to be very potent then everyone would get Tank Hunter IS and nobody in the right mind would pick up PIATs.

In my mind, you would go for 1 IS with Boys to serve as stopgap AT in the early/mid-game, unlock weapon racks and mix Boys IS with PIAT-wielding Sappers later on.

It's probably true that providing Brits with a non-doctrinal snare would not be the magic touch needed to make this faction viable again. However, it does solve the problem of Brits not having a proper snare (while every other faction has it). Giving a non-doctrinal snare to the Brits would also make them more viable than they are now.

Buffing other aspects of the Brits might be outside the scope of this thread.

I'd actually favor this option, though I'd tweak it.

Third upgrade would be Tank Hunter Package, includes 2x Boys AT rifles, HEAT grenade, (tracking). Give it a 60MU cost and call it a day.

Of course buffs or adjustments for preexisting units and weapons wouldn't be out of line.

As for a replacement in Special Weapons, perhaps we can give upgraded IS further utility, such as Button Vehicle (Bren) or Camouflage (PIAT/Boys)

I like this idea, but would further IS spam, and futher make pyrotechnics obsolete.

I like this idea, but would further IS spam, and further make pyrotechnics obsolete.

On the subject of pyrotechnics, I was thinking of making it a "IS Scout section" similar to IR Pathfinders. Essentially, you get 10 extra LoS, cheap arty flares, camo in cover, and two scoped SMLEs that crit enemy infantry at 40% HP (otherwise identical to regular IS SMLE). I would say that this would make it attractive in its own way.

On the subject of IS spam, I would say that it has been around for quite some time and always will be around as long as mainline infantry are this powerful and this flexible. Happens to USF Riflemen a lot as well (and, is arguably worse); even less flexible infantry such as Grens and Volks are often spammed. However, I would say that good army composition with proper combined arms should still win (albeit with more strategy and tactics required).

The AT tommies become quite obsolete after medium tanks hit the field, yes. Against light vehicles they work just fine (essentially a stopgap unit). If they were buffed to be very potent then everyone would get Tank Hunter IS and nobody in the right mind would pick up PIATs.

In my mind, you would go for 1 IS with Boys to serve as stopgap AT in the early/mid-game, unlock weapon racks and mix Boys IS with PIAT-wielding Sappers later on.

It's probably true that providing Brits with a non-doctrinal snare would not be the magic touch needed to make this faction viable again. However, it does solve the problem of Brits not having a proper snare (while every other faction has it). Giving a non-doctrinal snare to the Brits would also make them more viable than they are now.

Buffing other aspects of the Brits might be outside the scope of this thread.

or buy PIAT for your Sapper and they will remain useful the entire game.

Is lacking snare a disadvantage? yes, but it's not what's crippling the british. The insane price tag on the firefly and the overall mediocrity of the British armor is what it's crippling the British.

all the soft snare in the British army, (tulip, sniper shot, AEC shot, gammon bomb) would just be redundant if the british get actual snare.

or buy PIAT for your Sapper and they will remain useful the entire game.

Is lacking snare a disadvantage? yes, but it's not what's crippling the british. The insane price tag on the firefly and the overall mediocrity of the British armor is what it's crippling the British.

all the soft snare in the British army, (tulip, sniper shot, AEC shot, gammon bomb) would just be redundant if the british get actual snare.

That's what people says in definitive, what crippling Brit is lack of essential tools and nothing to compensate.

On the subject of pyrotechnics, I was thinking of making it a "IS Scout section" similar to IR Pathfinders. Essentially, you get 10 extra LoS, cheap arty flares, camo in cover, and two scoped SMLEs that crit enemy infantry at 40% HP (otherwise identical to regular IS SMLE). I would say that this would make it attractive in its own way.

Accually this units was presented in beta (or even on a release?) and it was coming i think with valentine tank. That units was called Scout section I only remember it had diffrent icon and it could use cammo.

It was removed becouse call in battlegroups were too expensive and i think people didn't really like it.

Sadly this unit wouldn't be used by players becouse currently Tommy squad behind green cover at vet 1 has a quite huge LoS (so to implement that upgrade basic vet 1 buff should be nerf)

The AT tommies become quite obsolete after medium tanks hit the field, yes. Against light vehicles they work just fine (essentially a stopgap unit). If they were buffed to be very potent then everyone would get Tank Hunter IS and nobody in the right mind would pick up PIATs.

In my mind, you would go for 1 IS with Boys to serve as stopgap AT in the early/mid-game, unlock weapon racks and mix Boys IS with PIAT-wielding Sappers later on.

It's probably true that providing Brits with a non-doctrinal snare would not be the magic touch needed to make this faction viable again. However, it does solve the problem of Brits not having a proper snare (while every other faction has it). Giving a non-doctrinal snare to the Brits would also make them more viable than they are now.

Buffing other aspects of the Brits might be outside the scope of this thread.

Have to agree with this post

I find I only use AT IS when I get rushed by Luchs / 222 and cant afford a 6 Pdr immediately , essentially , as mentioned , a stop gap. Bonus snare late game too If they stay alive.

However I do agree with firesparks in this situation. British tanks are under performing right now , more so the FF than the cromwell but could do with some buffs in terms of tech time and cost maybe? Im not master of balance myself.

Buff Royal Artillery Valentine and reduce commander points to make it soft counter to Luchs / 222 , and an annoyance to medium Armour anyone?

Buff Royal Artillery Valentine and reduce commander points to make it soft counter to Luchs / 222 , and an annoyance to medium Armour anyone?

I mean... isn't the AEC a hard counter to Luchs / 222 and an annoyance to medium armor?

I'd rather see the Valentine being a light vehicle capable of killing infantry decently well (ayyy it can crush tho!), and the rest of that commander to not suck.

Could just make AT tommies non doctrinal and buildable out of t2 or t3.

They suck against other infantry, can’t take medic/arty upgrade and are only useful for the snare. Hell, they’re not even great against vehicles. It’s also a low workload solution. The squad is already in the game.

I’d rather just give tommies a snare upon researching grenades. Why do people think that would be OP but rifles carrying double BAR, LMG grens, volks, guards, ppsh cons and having snares are fine? Tommies are good, great even but require extreme investment to out perform LMG grens and vetted Volks, while also being less flexible.

Edit: Falls have snare and can paradrop anywhere on the map and can stealth but they’re hardly OP. Ost’s Jaegar command squad can sprint and snare and has an extra model over grens and comes out of the box with g43s. I hardly think giving tommies a fuel based upgrade snare would break the game.

AT tommies BOYS rifle is the same as guards PTRS, so it is useful vs infantry.
Remember that they are "good enough" that modders attempted to nerf them out of the game by nerfing their AT nade, disallowing utility upgrade and disallowing bolster to affect them.

AT tommies BOYS rifle is the same as guards PTRS, so it is useful vs infantry.
Remember that they are "good enough" that modders attempted to nerf them out of the game by nerfing their AT nade, disallowing utility upgrade and disallowing bolster to affect them.

The AT rifle has roughly 1/3 the DPS of lee enfields at all ranges.

Guards have a broken vet 1 ability and DPs, DPs providing most of their AI damage output - a whopping 6x the dps of PTRS at max range and still more DPS than PTRS at minimum range.

That's fine, the AT rifles/PTRS should be mostly for killing vehicles, not infantry. But I don't agree that AT sections are useful against infantry.

Just un-nerf all the shit that was nerfed because of over-homogenization by the balance team...?

• Revert UKF AT guns nerf to give back their 50% accuracy bonus (last patch)
  
• Revert the sniper snare crit type nerfs (many patches ago)
  
• Revert the AEC treadshot nerf (this goes back and forth every single patch)
  
• Revert the weird nerf to the already-weak stopgap AT Tommies (last patch)
  
• Revert the Comet penetration nerfs so the UKF have powerful late-game AT again (few patches ago)
  
• Revert the base Tommy nerfs so that UKF can at least win early AI engagements, even if their early-mid AT kinda sucked (last patch)
  

The UKF had a unique and interesting style of combating armour, which was tricky to learn but rewarding, and the faction was overall OP for quite a while. With the nerfs of almost everything else in their arsenal however, everyone knows UKF is the weakest faction now, and UKF needs to be given back at least one or two of its teeth, such as the above list.

IMHO the worst possible solution would be to give base inf a snare. At some point in the near future, we're just going to be left with 5 armies that are all identical to OST with cosmetic reskins.