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Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2014, 22:31 PMVolsky

Let us explore the facts of this patch.

Grenadiers cost 240 Manpower and will reliably beat Conscripts in all combat situations, regardless of upgrades, by simply sitting in light or heavy cover. Even charging Conscripts is viable if you have two Grenadiers to his one Conscript. If met with a crewed weapon, one need only to launch a rifle grenade on it and continue to flank or advance towards the weapon with minimal deviation from his original route. Late game, Grenadiers can still get away with suiciding through multiple Soviet tanks (and their machine guns) to kill ZiS weapons and the like, and faust most of the Soviet vehicles before having to retreat. Vet retention is very good unless met with something such as an ISU-152.

Conscripts cost 240 Manpower and will beat Pioneers provided that they enter cover first and are at least at medium to long range. Against Grenadiers, they will lose very handedly even if in cover. Charging two Conscripts towards a Grenadier is asking to have one squad wiped and the other damaged to the point of having to retreat. If met with an MG42, the user must use Ura! to exit the VERY wide arc of fire of the MG, or to get close enough to loose a Molotov onto its crew (assuming the Cons become suppressed, they MG user will have ample time to pack up and move). Attempting to charge an MG is asking to get your face removed, and supported crew weapons are even deadlier as Grenadiers out-DPS you at all ranges, and Pioneers will beat you at point blank range. Late game, Soviet infantry is easily chewed up by Axis hull and co-axial weapons; a Panther is capable of being a mobile suppression platform with the top MG mounted. Attempting to charge an Axis tank to loose a magnetic AT grenade is suicide and usually amounts to a dead Conscript squad. Trying to charge past Axis units to kill a PaK also yields dead infantry.

Penal Battalions Companies cost 270 manpower and will beat Grenadiers and Pioneers at close range provided the Grenadiers lack an MG42, and the Pioneers lack a Flammenwerfer. At long ranges, Penal troops will easily be beaten by Grenadiers, even if the latter is not in cover, and the former is. If faced with an MG42, the Penal troops have no option but to halt and hope to kill the crew before becoming suppressed--they have no ability to Ura! out of harms way until reaching Vet2 (a weedy prospect at best). If you do manage to close with a crewed weapon, your only throw-able option is a satchel charge, that, with a 5 second fuse, is of dubious value against a wary opponent. The only boon of the charge is its ability to now demolish a bunker with one go, but this again assumes you were able to make it to the bunker. Late game, lacking any AT capabilities, Penal troops are more often than not dead weight. Attempting to use them meets the same results as Conscripts, although you may be able to tackle a crewed weapon or lone Grenadier before needing to retreat or being wiped out.

Panzergrenadiere cost 280 manpower and will handedly and quickly beat all manner of enemy infantry at any range, no matter if standing still or charging, with only Shock Troops requiring them to stop and stand their ground for fear of getting beaten at only the closest of ranges. If faced with a crewed weapon, their DPS output is often high enough to kill the gunner before they can be suppressed, and, in any event, their bundled grenade has a long enough range to wipe the crew before being suppressed as well. Late game, Panzergrenadiere can be issued with a pair of Panzerschrecks, with four 'Shrecks being capable of wiping out a T-34 obr 1942 (e.g. T-34/76) with a single volley of fire. With this upgrade, ALL Soviet vehicles, even the ISU-152 and Kliment Voroshilov-series of tanks are forced to retreat in the face of even a pair of Panzergrenadiere. Even with Panzershrecks mounted, PGs retain enough DPS to be able to beat a Conscript squad at close to medium range, and still retain their bundled grenade. Capable of warding off Soviet infantry and vehicles merely by their appearance on the field, Panzergrenadiere have no trouble reaching crewed ZiS weapons, removing them and denying their crucial presence to the Soviets.

Guards Riflemen cost 360 manpower and are limited to a doctrinal existence, and will lose to any Axis infantry squad unless the DP-28 upgrade is researched, regardless of cover. If met with a team weapon, Guards can at least create a window of escape with their RGD-33 hand grenade that can wipe the crew or at least kill the gunner. With DPs researched, Guards possess (from experience) a 50/50 chance of beating Grenadiers (that lack the LMG42 upgrade) at medium to short range, Pioneers at medium to long range, and Panzergrenadiere if the lattermost is out of cover and/or charging towards their position. Their default armament of two PTRS-41 14.5mm anti-materiel rifles are capable of two or three shotting the 222 armored car and the 251 halftrack, but are worth little even against the rear of anything other than the two aforementioned targets. The PTRS, is, however, a very effective anti-bunker weapon. With the DP upgrade purchased, Guards can choose to button an enemy vehicle, forcing it to a crawl and disabling its weapons (often the only thing capable of stopping an Axis vehicle rush). Late game, only their button ability makes their presence worthwhile, as they will either be rifle-grenaded to death, charged down by multiple Panzergrenadiere, or run over by an Axis vehicle using the Blitzkrieg ability. Attempting to use them to charge up to crewed weapons is an exercise in frustration, as both the PTRS rifle and the DP light machine gun do not fire on the move. Guards are just as "squishy" as Conscripts and Penal troops, and thus, charging Axis vehicles with them usually yields a squad of dead light infantry.

Are these facts in dispute? Are we fine with said facts? If you are, you have no concept of "balance", regardless of side. I think the Heer is cool as sh*t; I've spent over 40 hours researching them over the last two years for a realism mod I'm working on for vCoH. You know one of the few things I think is equally/slightly more cool? The Red Army, for pulling one of the most baffling turnaround victories (see: WWII) out of its rear end against all odds and all expectations. Hell, I took my screen name from a Red Army character in Call of Duty 2. That doesn't diminish the respect and awe I still have towards the German war machine.

If anyone wants to take politics and fanboyism into the mix, I'll take your head and shove it so far up your aft end that the lump in your throat will be your nose. Enough of this bollocks. Grow up and have a serious discussion.

Jump back to quoted post30 Mar 2014, 15:36 PM5thSSPzWiking

no you are playing sovs because you are a soviet fanboy.