Agree on all three points. Well presented and thought out! |
Is that so? How about you trying to explain it without Bias then???
Might have been me overreacting, and it was most likely this...
I am explaining the difference between COH2 and COH to someone who didn't play it and asked for explanation........
So basically, COH2 has become stupidified for user and is starting to look a lot like SC2. All we need is Chuck Norris and Rambo superheros that kill everything DLC, to complete the feel.
...I reacted to. Sorry about lashing out.
About me liking CoH2 more. It is very true, and I think it plays better with 2v2 than CoH1, without really knowing why sadly. Aslo not a high level player, something that might play a part in all of this.
About abusive things in CoH2, I do agree that there are alot of things that need to be looked at, and I'm not fond of all hardcounters that make builds stale. However, this is a new game and things are subject to change, unlike CoH1 which is unlikely to recieve any major further patches to iron out what I dislike in that game.
Also, I never claimed that everyone disliked cloak or vet works in CoH1. Just saying that not everyone thinks that all mechanincs in CoH1 were perfect either. In this sense we agree to disagree.
To try to stick to topic and answer if this game is more a clickfest than earlier (and CoH1) I think Blovski put it very good here.
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I am explaining the difference between COH2 and COH to someone who didn't play it and asked for explanation........
If you want to explain diffrences you could try do it without such a obvious bias. You are more explaining what you sentimentally miss.
Its not about is it to much or not. Its about what has been lost from COH1 mechanics. We all love COH for a reason, and that was not because it was like other games (SC and others)
It still isnt SC or other games. However, new game, new crew that developed. There are bound to be diffrences between the games.
So basically, COH2 has become stupidified for user and is starting to look a lot like SC2. All we need is Chuck Norris and Rambo superheros that kill everything DLC, to complete the feel.
I would argue that some things are easier to pull off in CoH2, opening up for a wider playerbase to enjoy the game while risking to scare away veterans and 'pro' gamers. However there were alot of things that were just plain stupid and abusive in CoH1. Like bike/jeep pushing. Magicly cloaked sniperspam (lets not forget to add stormtroopers to the magical cloak). Buying vet for wermacht. The list could goes on. As far as fighting goes, I felt a diffrence between CoH1 and 2, however, I think it plays out ok. Some less nades and molotovs would be nice to see, something like 20% less (so I suggest a slight cost increase). I think overall small arms damage could need a look at. A slight increase of dps for basic T0 and T1 infantry (aside from Penals) would speed up fights and make cover feel more important. I dont think it is an impossible problem to solve.
Also, clicking mindlessly? If you are clicking mindlessly I can see you have a problem with this game. There are still decisions to be made, even in the smallest fight. That said, I really would like to see units shooting backwards when moving again, allowing softretreats actually to dish out a little damage.
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I would argue that the most important units when it comes to time are the ones that you rush out. Say T70, T34 that really have big impact. As balance is right now, tech and buildtime to shockunit seems ok.
With a cost reduce of fuel and increase of mp for backtech and backtech only(soviet tech seems to cost more fuel and less mp, this could even it out somewhat). The units coming out of these back teched structures would still not be considered shock units, wether they are Su85s or T34s. Since the fuelcost would be lower, they could hit the field earlier, yes, but to a higher manpowercost, thus maintaining current buildspeed.
It will most likely affect the current meta. No matter how you do it, if soviets are allowed to produce a bigger variety of units during one game game will change one way or the other.
And about the upgrades for conscripts I simply have to disagree about the notion that it evens out since cons have oorah and merge for free. That said, I am fine with the costs as they are, since they add the requirement och choosing what way to proceed as soviet. Still, in almost any game, you need theese upgrades (molotov could sometimes be occationaly be skipped though). This will slow soviet tech down and backtech a building of 90 fuel quite the steep one-time investment, because if you are not already winning, those 90 fuel needs to get to work asap. CoH1 solved this by having the supply-yard as a stopgap to higher tiers. The initial T3 or 4 would cost you ALOT in total, but back-tech or tech-on was not that expensive. Something similar could be introduced in CoH2, however with alot of carefull counting on evening out costs to be similar to what they are toda to prevent shockunits coming out to early/late or cheap/expensive. |
I never argued the actual builtime is the issue. Good to see that the total fuelcost is more or less the same, something that I actually suspected.
However, it is very clear that soviet players tend to stick with 2 tiers, even if costs are the same. Why?
My theory of this is actually the partial tech provided with battlephase and build (also the build locks up a unit for longer for sov). In short, it is a psychological division. As ostheer, I can partially go for the next tier, it doesnt provide me with anything yet (apart from riflenades) but I can build the building when needed. If I need, I could build another t3 unit before using the rest of the fuel to build t4, if I need to. As soviet, say you went t3. The choice is between a new tier and a new unit. "Do I need another t34 or build the building t4 and then wait 115 fuel for a S85?" In the heat of battle, that t34 might feel like a better choice, locking the soviets into their builds.
This is why I proposed something in the line with lower fuel and increased mp leaving overall buildtime more or less same, but increase the incentive to burn fuel on another tier.
OR add something like the supplyyard that unlocks tier 3 and 4 for soviet, for an initial high fuelcost, then lower cost on t3 and t4.
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This is exactly the sort of negativity that has me considering my future with COH2, or at least with COH2.org
Even if there are ppl who post like this, dont let it get to you and your own experience. As long as you play and have fun, as stated above, there isnt a real problem is there? As for the community I think it actually have calmed down quite alot. The strange thing is that some ppl who dont play the game still stick here and post why they dont play. It doesnt really bring anything to the community overall. Ofc, its open and anyone should be able to post, it just baffles me that some who have not been playing or paid interest in a long time go here just to bash, so I understand what you are talking about. Still, ignore them. There are many more posters on this site that do play the game and have an attitude that is more in line with yours. Listen to them instead. |
Cant remember seeing any troops sitting on tanks in CoH2 campaign, but in CoH1 I do think there were troops sitting on tanks. As far as animations go, it doesnt have to be all that detailed. Look at troops entering buildings or getting into a HT, not really detailed, so if there are animations of troops ON tanks already, it might be doable. However, still dont see the need for complexity like tank not firing, lower speed etc. The role is filled with other units as of now. |
A huge equalizer right now is the auto-cover system that sends troops running to places where you dont want them to. Grens into a burning molotov is a great example. The other is the "last guy in the squad" (there is always one isnt there...) that for some reason makes retreats soft or hard so much harder to pull off, since the squad wont react properly untill all of them are relativly close to eachoter. There should be a "sprint" for models that are horribly out of place. Once this gets sorted, you can get a better feel for your infantry. |
I really enjoy a happy and constructive community as well. Some are communities are more infected than others. As stated above I think its the heritage from CoH1 that makes it all so much more difficult. Also makes me sad to know that alot of CoH1 players bash this game on forums, and newcomers trying to learn a new game (not played CoH1 or ever heard of) look at forums and go: meh... so much bad talk, cant be fun, and then leave. Still, cant do anything about that but to keep a civil and positive tone and keep posting. |
@Le Wish: Upgrades could range from
-specific weapon upgrades like PTSR to Penals or T34 upgun, which diversify the tiers existing units function within itself
- flat stat increase upgrades roughly similar to Bulletins like (pulling out of my ass) a 10% accuracy increase to T3 armor units
-lateral upgrades like 10% reduction in all muni costs or 20% faster repair rate.
-maybe even an option to "buy" CPs for faster progression.
PTRS for penals and T34 upgun I can support as upgrades. 'simple' changes that would allow some diversity.
Buying stat increases feel slightly cheesy, something like buying vet in CoH. Strange really, but for some reason it feels better when paired with a weapon or model.
Upgrades like faster repair and lower muni costs could be interesting. Looking at the supply yard from CoH1 that provided you with the option to lower your upkeep was interesting.
Buy CPs is an interesting idea, not sure how it would play though and pay with what?
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