I have to disagree. 7 man as an upgrade is always strong (when compared to upgrades such as the StG, MG42, BARS and Brens) based on the improvement it gives to the squad. The reason why 0 vet 7 man Cons are comparable to other upgraded infantry is because standard Cons are intentionally shit.
as ive said before its a 17% boost to hp and dps and a 15% boost to DPS in cover for base cons...
an LMG42 upgrade gives outright 36% DPS at range 20 and 61% at range 30... other upgrades like the SVT or the STG44 also provide massive DPS upgrades at a wide variety of ranges...
STG for example gives a DPS boost of 16% at range 30 30% at range 20 and 39% at range 10...
even SVT a DPS boost of 30% at range 30 28% at range 20 and 35% at range 10...
its roughly comparable of a boost to SVT really just shunting part of the DPS boost to a HP boost...
But since the upgrade is cheaper than most other upgrades I'd say it's a pretty damn good upgrade.
well the upgrade costs 50 muni and 18 mp (since u need to reinforce)... id say it costs the same but shunts the 10 muni to 18 mp...
Also using Vet 3 Cons is a pretty bad comparison, even to other vetted infantry in my opinion. The gap between Vet 0 and Vet 3 Cons is huge.
agreed |
There are literally no issues with the dshk and the .50 cal (except maybe the dshk's EXTREMELY small firing arc). The .50 cal is retarded to play against because it packs up and sets up so damn fast. The smaller firing arc isn't that much either. Then again, I guess it kind of has to be OP since LT doesn't give an AT gun. Doesn't change the fact that it's an extremely frustrating unit though.
ohh yeah i agree...the 50 and dshk are great... i was just pointing out that the 50 and the dshk both have worse arc timing are deathloopable and tech limited/doctrinal than the MG34... in exchange they packup and setup faster have much greater anti armor DPS and have even better suppression than the 42...
now imo due to arc and timing the 42 is very slightly better against infantry than either of these machineguns... an mg42 with its wide arc can shutdown a much larger area far earlier than the 50 or the dshk... and the 42 being a non deathloopable mg means that its less likely to be wiped by small arms fire than the 50 or dshk
in exchange however the 50 and dshk have much greater anti armor firepower thanks to the AP rounds.... it shuts down light vehicles soo efficiently that i usually settle for the DSHK instead of the zis when fighting ostheer or OKW BGHQ (though i prefer the pack howi vs the BGHQ) |
Seriously, a playercard would be helpful. Cons are better in team games than in 1v1s because it's easier to survive to late game in team games where the 7 man upgrade comes and really changes the flow of the game. 7 man Cons are arguably better than StG Volks since it's a cheaper upgrade, buffs survivability, gives a small but nice buff to DPS in cover, and most importantly, helps make Conscripts replaceable (StG Volks are pretty much irreplaceable in team games, even 1v1s and 2v2s most of the time).
i do think 7 man is strong... but only after vet 3... before veterancy 7 man is comparable to any bog standard weapon upgrade...
Also, please don't talk about bias without a playercard. I try my best to be unbiased but I am obviously still Axis leaning as evidenced by my playercard. The same could be said of you and any other forum member.
ive had my playercard on my sig for some time... but somehow it isnt visible to people due to something related to my steam profile... |
That's why you need to scout it out first. In 1v1 KT is not used because of obvious reasons. 2v2 it can be used and it synergizes well with scouting units or any sort of forward vision. Generally it's not the smartest thing to put your KT on the front line if you KNOW the enemy has that combo. It's a doctrinal combo so you won't always play against it but if you do know, don't put KT first.
The whole combo is RNG dependent but you do need to have smoke ready from your support gun if you are playing against that combo.
the issue with this is that 1 wrong move and youre kaputt... the KT is soo slow ive never seen one escape... |
I would however hesitate to call it the "best" MG bar none. I think solid arguments can also be made for the 50cal and the DSHK. No question though that it's superior to the vickers, 34 and maxim.
objectively the issue with the 50 is timing arc and tech considerations while the dshk is doctrinal while having worse arc and later timing....
ohh and both are deathloopable...
subjectively id say the 50 and dshk are veeery slightly worse against infantry due to deathloop timing and arc however have an added bonus of completely destroying all light vehicles due to high penetration... |
As i mentioned before, these numbers are very misleading. Volks and Cons both have differing damage profiles by default, so "a 30% boost" to Volks isnt comparable to a "30% boost" to cons. Particularly when you take Veterancy into account.
volks have greater dps at most ranges during vet 0 however the opposite true for vet 3 vs vet5... vet 0 volks are pretty balanced overall though vet 5 may be arguable
Volks also do have the weakest mainline Veterancy going. Middling RA and Accuracy boost, when other Mainlines have much higher numbers in one or the other category (or both). Infantry sections are an exception, with rather bad Vet, but they begin the game with much better performance, are universally upgraded with an equivalent 25% damage and RA boost (through the extra man), and later on with Brens on top of this.
ehh rifles dont get that massive vet boost either... only cons get massive accuracy and RA bonuses while grens get a large DR boost and accuracy bonuses
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That is a bit too fast..
yeah just tested with cheatmods... the KT was killed 2 seconds after the stun abated... for a 5 second stun thats 7 seconds
specifically it takes 3 penetrating SU-85 shots to kill... if ram and the first shot are done at the same time this usually means that the KT will die at around a few seconds after the ram connects... |
Isn't that normal than? You spend munitions + tank and you need another tank to finish the job. I mean, it's a cheese strategy but I've seen KTs and Tigers get out with smoke, either because there were no supporting units with AT capability or the affected player smoked around the heavy tank. It's even more so since you really do need a high penetrating tank to finish off a KT. It's 375 armour will certainly mean that not every shot will penetrate at max range from SU85. Just my two cents.
i can with certainty though say that the combo will delete a KT within 10 seconds of connecting ram... its insane |
The rockets is always comes from rear armor, and Heavy Tanks always cant react to evade that ram + rockets.
My tanks or my teammate tanks, is not out of positions, the t34 just charge ahead and other followed. afaik and experience, i never see this tactic fail to delete a tank in a game
while it does most certainly delete heavies... ripping off 90% of the hp is a bit inaccurate... as i tested on cheatmods it usually kills around 60-70% of the HP of a tiger even from the rear... it usually needs an SU-85 or some other AT unit to finish the kill... |
wow just wow! as a 2v2 rank 1000 player. I faced the same exact issue. I had to go 5 men gren to counter sov player unless i see isu152 than elefant.
there is 1 thing you missed, is the su85 supporting the kv tanks. they simply sit back while kv tanks push through to clear my infantry positions
isu152 is op af against axis too! luckily 2v2 i may get a JT help
you dont actually need 5 man gren to beat sov.... the fact that 4x conscripts technically cost 291mp since OST gets faust and nades for free means that SOV earlygame field presence will always be lower than the equivalent OKW/OST field presence... the answer here is just to wreck the soviet player hard enough earlygame...
and even at lategame OST is still strong... grens now have 0.8 DR at vet 3 soo theyre really good lategame... plus you get the brummbar to control soviet infantry... granted double zis barrage is probably a bit broken... but hey i think the zis needs a price and popcap increase too... |
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