Good points! I have tried the very same things and found that vs volk spam, it just falls apart even when none of the units are vetted. Shock troops do shred everything at higher vet, but they bleed you soo hard. How do you work around the bleed?
Well you don't. I mean you can't have everything. But in my opinion despite the manpower bleed you can make it work in certain situations. |
I have another one:
Penal syndrome. Either go penals or lose the game. You have no other option but to go penals or you will lose straight up every game. Conscripts suck so hard, it can't be made to work vs stg volks.
In my opinion on certain maps like the 3v3 and 4v4 Angermuende map, or other close combat maps you can try something like Soviet Shock Army. You get like 4 conscripts you upgrade them with PPSH-41's and you get like 2 Shock Troops and early-mid game I am pretty certain that you will dominate the infantry game. Late game vetted up shock troops are pretty good IMO and they shed most things pretty easily at close range. I do agree however that the Cons do not scale well into late game and they get shredded by vetted Obers, vetted up volks, and vetted LMG Grens. However in my opinion conscripts can be useful for their merging but mostly for their AT nades. Merging can be good to keep team weapons alive. In my opinion conscripts have better AT capabilities than penals, I think it is much easier to oorahhh into a tank w few conscripts and throw the AT nades at it than for penals to throw the sticky satchels onto the tank.
However this is too situational I definetly agree that conscripts need to be majorly reworked make them competitive and to make them scale better into the late game. I think penals need a little nerf and conscripts need a pretty significant buff in order to make the Soviets more fun, more diverse and more balanced infantry wise. |
The only thing I am going to say is that I had 150 kill with Stukas and the opponents with around 90 kill Priests. |
ostheer has several things that okw lack and offers a pretty different playstyle that i prefer actually. overall ostheer has every tool available to them, with probably the exception of a durable infantry core. grenadiers are quite strong with vet and weapon upgrades, but as others have said suffer in the late game from explosive wipes. every weapon team ostheer has is actually quite good, the mg42 has high suppression rates in addition to good dps, the mortar has an extremely high rate of fire making it really good against brits, and the pak has good penetration and TWP. the flame halftrack offers good shock value if you rush it, and the medium tank roster is pretty solid as well.
the main problem with ostheer is how much micro is required compared to some of the other factions. you need to be constantly microing all your support teams in addition to making sure your grens arent in a position to just randomly die to an explosion. but if you can manage all that ostheer has a tool for every problem in every stage of the game
I guess what you are trying to say is that ostheer is just as good as okw IF you are any good at the game and that OKW is a much more noob friendly faction than Ostheer which can punish you very harshly if you make a big mistake or you get "out skilled" by rng in some cases. Thanks for the head up! |
Personally, I think that the Stug is amazing and one of the view things that keep Wehr alive (with Mg42, Paks, the Sniper and maybe the Brummbär). Definetly more useful than the stupid Panther...
Well I definitely agree that the wehr panther is ridiculous but I feel like that the stug is not effective against heavy tanks such as the churchills, Is-2 and Pershing and they just get out sniped by fireflys and SU-85s. Maybe in the early-mid game it is viable against shermans, t-34 and cromwells but I dont think it scales well into the late game. |
Similar to what everyone has already said,
Lose one unit and it can be GG especially if it's your mg42 while they are pushing.
I personally live by the half-track and get it 8/10 games I play and put scopes in itbas well. Keeps all your support weapons on the fight and can make for very passive aggressive ostheer play as you slowly move up the map with every engagement you win.
Biggest problems ostheer faces:
-One wrong move and your support weapons can all turn against you.
-this problem is largely fixed by getting a p4 to defend vs flanks are more freely push up. However, once allied TDs hit the field your offenses with your tanks are halted.
- problem two is fixed by supporting your p4 with aggressive pak play but is dependent on the map and leads to the third problem. Rocket artillery and indirect fire spam which destroys your support weapons and the back bone of your army.
I always opted for the 222 instead of the half-track because of the amount of snipers, clown cars or M3A1s and universal carriers I see and I found the 222 rather effective against them. But I guess I could give it a go sometime soon. |
I think you are right in the sense that you need a lot of micro as Ostheer, maybe more than for other factions because of your reliance on team weapons. You constantly have to re-position your team weapons so they dont get flanked/artied to death.
Then you have to consider this: if an enemy loses a squad of - lets say - Rifle Men, he loses one squad. If you lose an MG42 to the enemy, you not only lose a squad, but the enemy effectively gains one. I think thats the largest weakness of Wehrmacht, the reliance on team weapons, which often will be used against you. And once a Soviet player gets a 6-man MG42 to back up his Penal hordes, it's pretty much gg. So, in team games you really have to work together with your mate to protect your team weapons.
Yeah I feel like Wehrmacht relies on PAKs since they dont have a non-doctrinal good tank destroyer. I mean the stug is there but it is terrible. Every other faction has good non-doctrinal tank destroyers. Then in the late game I find very difficult to micro these support weapons due to the abundance of rocket arty at that stage of the game. |
Don't bring OKW to the talks, as the main topic is about Wehr being competitive.
My answer would be yes, but the faction is the hardest to play against good players. For the first 10-15min you need everything to go well and you can't have too many wipes because of allied easy blobbing + light vehicle combo dominance, that means good repositioning of MG's and good use of teller mines against light vehicles. Many maps PAK isn't really good because too many sight blocking that good players just kite around with their vehicles.
There is still things that need to be balanced for Wehrmacht, but I don't think that will happen
I guess I need to start putting down some tellers. Although the thing is I am always starved for munition in the early game. I need to get LMGs on my grens or Panzerschrecks on the pzgrens, then I need 60 munition upgrade for a healing bunker in base and usually lob quite a few rifle grenades. |
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I meant Blitzkrieg Doctrine with G43, Tiger and JU87 anti tank strafe.
Alrighty then I shall be set and ready to go. Thanks for all the help and tips, hopefully now that I finally sorted my commanders I shall be better prepared now I just need to start playing better! |