Profile of LoopDloop

I tune out automatically as soon as someone brings up veterancy or weapon upgrades when talking about unit balance.

The game is over before the first truck is setup if you can't at least hold one VP, FP and MP.

And even if that weren't the case, you do NOT balance units based on something they get later down the line.

The BASELINE unit MUST be balanced and perform well in some fashion. All Allied units do this, either due to high model count or high damage output. Ostheer Grenadiers have mid-high damage so at least they aren't totally useless (though the instant loss of one model upon engagement is a huge problem), but Volks deal no seriously threatening damage and don't have six models either -- middle of the road, mediocre, with no upside of any kind.

If you can't hold at least those stated points in the early game than it's an l2p issue no matter what faction you're using.

Disregarding the claim that veterancy and unit upgrades shouldn't matter, stating that vanilla volks are useless is simply not true. They will beat riflemen at long range and infantry sections at close range (they beat cons all the time and penals are still bs so I'm not including those). They also have five men, more than an infantry section or grenadier squad, making them that much more durable despite higher target size (isn't it mainly axis players who complain about low model counts and how five man squads are king?).

And yes, you do balance units based on something they get later down the line. Would riflemen be balanced if usf got elefants as a nondoctrinal t4 unit? Obviously not. Would volks be woefully underpowered if the best upgrade they ever got was 1 mp40 s had no combat vet bonuses? Also yes. Units aren't balanced only in their relation to one another, but also the support their faction offers and the capabilities they get later on.

Thank you so much for this post. So much.

Meh. Sturmpioneers' effectiveness scales down dramatically as the game progresses, and are only useful in very limited combat after the first 5ish minutes due to a variety of other factors besides dps exchange. The fact that they can put their sweeper away doesn't bother me much, as allied engineers get other shiny things in exchange (rear echelons and royal engineers can have zooks/piats as well as sweepers and are cheaper, combat engineers get demos and nondoc flamers).

The larger infantry problem IMO is live version volks, as they are truly overly cost efficient and have a lot of advantages other than raw performance that help them out against the allies. (Penals aside because they're op too) volks require less investment to be good. They are cheaper all around, don't require side techs for grenades and weapon upgrades, and have better garrison denial than all of usf's nondoctrinal mid game combined (hyperbole but almost true). This means that they get a bit of a power spike during the mid game in and of themselves because they'll get weapon upgrades and grenades first usually, and will be able to freely use them as they only paid half for their stgs that double bars cost, which is why double bars/brens are more effective. However, that effectiveness gets offset by the fact that they are basically required in order to trade positively on the lategame against vetted volks chucking fueseless cover denying flamenades every 20 seconds, while still being cheaper. Then you factor in volks' support all game. They have backup from a light vehicle that only costs 210 mp and no fuel, basically making it disposable and spammable, and an engineer unit with good combat and repair performance in the early game, and an (at times inconsistent) at gun to shut out any similar allied light vehicle abuse, which then transitions into luchs and/or puma, and then the real okw powerhouse starts, with all their shiny lategame units. Meanwhile, usf has nothing but riflemen and mortars to start, a crappy engineer unit (in the early game, they make good zook machines later) and an ambulance. They then have to pay for their grenades and slot weapons and their light vehicles are competitive but not much better than okw's. Then lategame rolls around and it's jackson and Scott spam, which can do alright but I'd much harder to play and can get wrecked really easily by bad luck and/or decent axis play, and they don't have anywhere to go from their, except maybe ez8s and Pershing, while the okw player has even more lategame options.
TL, DR: the fact that volks can trade with allied inf efficiently makes them op because okw as a faction gets so much other crap.

Live kt is IMO a bit too ridiculously good at wiping full health, spaced out, 5 man squads in a single hit, but this is being toned down in the patch.

Live version IS's are generally better and more cost efficient than grens except for the small window of time where they don't have brens and grens have their lmgs or g43s. However, grens don't have garbage moving accuracy and they have access to useful, non-sidetech'd grenades (have fun trying to use mills bombs ever) and a snare and are thus more versatile.

That's just my opinion and experience.

you want some proof that axis tanks sucks aganist inf ? fear no more , go look at scatter (moving one too) of the unit and the aoe (and obv. the damage fall off) you will find that they are either on par or less accurate that allied tank , unless you pick anti inf tanks ( like ost wind or brumbar) and thats the point of the axis faction they have specialized tool but weaker generalist role

Pintle 42s. If muh Jackson had those I'd think it was a bit much, and it doesn't even have the armor of axis tanks (I'm referring to the fact that panthers, an at unit, have them).

While flamethrowers will hit everything in a building, incendiary nades and molotovs will only hit units that are in the windows within it's radius. Make sure you're hitting the proper spots on the house.

I once had a guy in one of those long rectangular wooden houses face his vickers the other way after I facerushed him with a single volks squad and threw a flamenade in and it did very little damage (the volks were suppressed and had lost like 2 models by that time). After a while he just faced it back again and kept shooting. I wasn't even mad because it was kind of cool.

This is also dbp by the way; wbp was last year. I thought this was a necro at first.

None taken.

But don't grenadiers also get rifle grenades without sacrificing a weapon slot? Yet RETs have little combat utility versus infantry unless you make 6-7 of them.



I think my post wasn't written well, but I meant to say that having a rifle grenade upgrade like the UK from VCoH would be OP. They should obviously keep the auto attack in fighting positions, but need veterancy to use the rifle grenade outside of the fighiting position.



If they have a timer they'd be too easy to dodge, so that would need to be compensated with cheaper activation. But if they're too cheap, they can be spammed to easy if someone just builds RETs.

I still think the best solution is having free grenades with a timer that are either on autofire or an activated ability. that take up a weapon slot. They'd be primarily for garrison clearing (especially/mostly mgs) and soft countering cover by forcing movement, and the fact that they have a somewhat lengthy timer, take up a weapon slot, and lock out flamers and minesweepers would keep it balanced IMO, especially considering their carbines are pretty bad (as in can't beat anything 1 on 1 with all four, let alone 3).

So basically, to reiterate, it wouldn't be as bad as Coh1 because there's only one, it has a decently long timer and distinctive audio cue (if it doesn't bug out like riflenades sorta do), the rest of the squad is pretty combat ineffective (unlike sections from Coh1), and it locks out other useful upgrades and a weapon slot. Having it as an activated ability would also make it much harder to blob REs in the way Coh1 sections were.

Free in the sense that it's just another addition to the roster with no tradeoff, similar to that of the USF mortar. Like when stgs and flame nades were given to folks, those replaced schreks and normal nades and Penals PTRS replaced flamers.

I guess the point is that garrisons should be a little hard to clear and giving a faction more and more options (on top of an overall building nerf with exit times) will make garrisons even more pointless.

Yeah well that's because all the other factions don't have nearly as many stupid caveats in their design as usf.

I don't think anybody (who any faction) would agree that garrisons are at all useless. They often shape engagements and determine who wins.