There is one that gives it to Echelons. It doesn't matter if its a Rifle or an RE, a flamethrower decimates units in buildings. In addition, if you also tech nades, your RE's get smokes as well. Otherwise do that with your mortar.
I don't get the point what flamers on riflemen should provide except for making the strongest AI standard inf even stronger. We had that a while ago and it was simply ridiculous.
It seems like you search all you answers in improving rifles to the point were they can handle every other unit. But that is not the point of this game. Even USF needs (a smaller) amount of combined arms. AT guns and MGs HELP but are not necessarily needed. You can wreck AI and AT with your weapons upgrade, but way less consistent.
Look at the flaws of other factions in order to see, that every faction has its problems.
Soviets: Have hard AT problems if going T1
OKW: No indirect fire or smoke besides going Med HQ
Ostheer: No reliable counter against light vehicles if choosing anything but Mobile Defense Doctrine
USF: No snare, no indirect fire, no flamers, unreliable handheld AT, justkillmeplease
Flamers on mainline infantry is dumb period. |
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This is based on 100% anecdotal observation, but it seems like the paratroopers miss a lot with their bazookas. I even briefly tried shooting at a structure (the okw main base) and they missed multiple times lol.
Am I just dumb/crazy or is this true? |
Then I'll finish the job. 
Okay, so here's my full proposal.
I've reworked three doctrines rather than two, but the edits are all fairly small so it should be roughly the same amount of work. It's mostly a reshuffle. Hopefully that's acceptable to Relic.
ARMOR COMPANY
- 0 CP - Rear Echelon Flamethrowers
- Unchanged (from Rifle Company)
Armor Company gets cheap RE flamers and Rifle Company has the newer, stronger Assault Engineers to support its Riflemen play. Medical crates also allow USF to forgo the Ambulance for a bit.
- 0 CP - M10 "Wolverine" Tank Destroyer
- 'Flanking Speed' moved to Veterancy 0
The M10 has always been Armor Company's signature tank and is very much the soul of the doctrine. It lost a bit of its power when it was tied to tech. Moving Flanking Speed to Vet 0 allows it to be a speedy flanking tank straight away rather than just being a budget Jackson for a while. first
- 8 CP - Mark Vehicle
- Unchanged (from the Soviet faction)
The Soviet ability. It's good for supporting M10s against stronger targets.
- 8 CP - 155mm Howitzer Barrage
- Unchanged (from old Mechanized)
This is an existing ability that used to be in Mechanized. With it back in the game it can be removed from the WC51. It's also probably more useful anyway: an armor based commander has more need of a light barrage to scatter AT guns than it does a heavy emplacement buster.
- 11 CP - 105mm Sherman Bulldozer
- 105mm Howitzer range increased to 55 metres
The Sherman Bulldozer's a decent anti-infantry tank but USF already has a very strong anti-infantry tank from the standard Sherman's HE rounds. With the Wolverine being tied to tech there's little reason to buy this expensive, exclusively AI tank. The increased range allows it to fire further than a normal Sherman and therefore fill a vehicular indirect fire role similar to the M8 Scott. With a range of 55 it can fire almost as far as the Scott and Jackson can, but it's still outranged by the PaK 40 and the Jagdpanzer IV.
TACTICAL SUPPORT COMPANY
- 3 CP - M1919A6 LMG
- Unchanged.
- 3 CP - M3 Assault Group
- Has a squad of Assault Engineers in the back.
- Loses Medical Crates: that ability has moved to Assault Engineers.
- Regains the Vehicle Repair Aura upgrade it used to have: fits the theme of this doctrine and is useful for Mechanized too.
- Keeps its .50 cal machine gun and the Step On It! ability for bazooka shenanigans.
- Cost increased 450 MP, 30 FU.
A reworked version of the ability in Mechanized based on the philosophy of the new AT gun drop in Recon Support Company: excellent value for manpower but not very spammable. With Assault Engineers becoming a desirable squad we no longer need the janky Assault Engineer Crew solution. Mechanized also gets the new version.
- 4 CP - P47 Recon Run
- Unchanged.
- 6 CP - White Phosphorous Barrage
- Unchanged.
Moved over from Rifle Company. Synergises with the Calliope.
- 10 CP - M4 Sherman Calliope
- Unchanged.
Indirectly buffed by the White Phosphorous synergy.
RIFLE COMPANY
- 0 CP - Sherman Easy Eight
- Unchanged.
- 0 CP - Assault Engineers
- Vet 1 'Destroy Cover' ability replaced with Vet 0 Medical Crates (like Sturmpioneers and the M3).
- Gain a fifth man at Vet 1, replacing the lost Destroy Cover bonus.
These reworked Assault Engineers are hopefully worth the 80MP extra they cost over Rear Echelons. They're still lackluster at Vet 0 but at Vet 1 they become a decent flanking squad and their support abilities hopefuly make them excellent support for Riflemen. Rifle Company is the only commander that can get them straight away, with Mechanized and Tactical Support having access to them through the 3 CP M3 Halftrack call-in.
- 2 CP - Rifleman Scout Training
- Grants Riflemen the Flares ability.
- Grants Riflemen and Assault Engineers the Sprint ability.
This replaces Rifleman Flares and Fire Up. Sprint is Fire Up without the setback, which is what all other factions have. Assault Engineers get it too, making them a stronger flanking squad than they are in the other two doctrines that get them.
- 3 CP - M5 Halftrack
- Overdrive replaced with Step On It!
- Cost reduced from 350 MP 30 FU to 270 MP 30 FU, the same as the Soviet version.
This is the M5 that was formerly in Tactical Support. An unupgraded halftrack with Step On It! is a very useful unit as Mechanized's M3 has proven and the Quad Mount can provide suppression and anti-air to Captain builds.
- 12 CP - 240mm Howitzer Barrage
- Unchanged
Moved over from Armor Company, which has the 155mm. This gives Rifle Company a powerful late game munitions sink.
This would be great. I feel like a lot of the usf commanders are just kinda poorly designed which is a huge problem since commander choice covers so many basic tools vanilla usf lacks. |
I don't play 2 v 2 much, other than at a very low rank with some casual friends, so I can't comment on team games.
In 1v1 it's other USF problems (tech structure that splits AT gun and HMG, lack of mines, lack of flamer) that really cause me problems. I usually go for a doc with Riflemen mines + sandbags to mitigate that key faction weakness. Garrisons are still hell though.
I've never felt Rifles were the problem - for example in your post you commented that USF LVs are not fantastic. I'd agree, m20 utility car isn't good enough, and while the Stuart is decent, it always gets compared to the T70, which is godly. I think USF and UKF share some design issues that are causing them to struggle.
Imho, I think standardising important/basic faction tools like mines, infantry snares, sandbags, flamers, light mobile artillery would be needed. Lacking basic tools isn't about factional flavour/uniqueness, they're crippling weaknesses in the faction design that make them USF and UKF extremely vulnerable in a large number of common game situations.
+1
I kinda wish usf teaching was just made linear. They’d probably have to either take out or rework either lt or cpt squad though (as 2 free combat units out of a trench structure appropriately priced to be linear would be a bit much) among other changes as well. |
Anyway, some proposals for a partial rework of the top two voted commanders: Armor Company and Tactical Support Company.
- ASSAULT ENGINEERS - 0 CP
Boost Assault Engineers to 5 men, making them a strong combat squad, and give them the ability to drop Sturmpioneer/M3 Halftrack medical crates. Swap Rear Echelon Flamers and Assault Engineers over so Armor Company has the cheap flamers and Rifle Company has the new pseudo-Sturmpios that can support Riflemen as an early flanking unit and medical crate dropper.
- M5 HALFTRACK - 3 CP
Combine the M3 Halftrack (Mechanized) and the M5 Halftrack (Tactical Support) into one ability. The new ability calls in the M5 Halftrack with Step On It instead of Overdrive and a squad of the reworked Assault Engineers in the back. It does not have the medical crate drop: that's moved to Assault Engineers where it's arguably more useful and useable.
I like that a lot. |
From the CoH2 Mod Tools:
- Immobilizes squad
- Receives 0 suppression
- Receives 10% less damage
- Weapon accuracy decreased by 20%
FYI the Guards one:
- Immobilizes squad
- Cooldown decreased by 25%
- Range increased by 2.5m
Thanks. |
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Can anyone give me the hard stats and numbers for hit the dirt (the soviet doctrinal ability for cons)? I'm not quite sure what it does after whatever patch changed it and I don't know which changelog to look at. Thanks. |
The armor gets penetrated at max range by ATG/TDs by about 50-75% of shots, increasing to well around or over 75% with HVAP or vet pen bonusses. The HP pool is barely adequate.
Most tanks can run away from a bad engagement unlike the KT, and if they are lost they don't cost 720mp and 280fu to replace. You're comparing apples and oranges. It's a fact that the KT does not perform in acquaintance to its cost and its inability to retreat adequately is one of the contributing factors.
How is the hp pool “barely adequate”? It has over 1000 health. If you let it eat four to five volleys (assuming you get suprememly unlucky with rng from atgs or TDs then you’ve messed up.
Most tanks also can’t take that much damage. |
If it's basically like USF vehicles, in which a portion of the units cost is sunk in a crew that can be wiped, then I guess it's okay. If it has the same decrew/ungarrison delay so the crew can be wiped, but if you do so early enough you can save the squad, I'm fine with it honestly.
That said, you are going to get complaints from players who spend minutes preparing and actually destroying emplacements when the 70 Manpower and 30 Fuel they're taking down is kind of miniscule compared to the single or double mortars/support guns needed to expediently take down the emplacement.
And sure, you're losing map presence, but the gun itself is denial for a point, and the line of sight afforded by the emplacement is recon that's not to be scoffed at.
I'd say at the very least, put the price at 150 Manpower to put it on par with Bunkers and Fighting Positions.
Don't forget that bunkers and fighting positions don't cost fuel though, and don't take up as much popcap as a squad, or any in the case of the bunker (IIRC the fighting position has a negligible pop cost but I could be totally wrong). |
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Don’t underestimate the utility of being able to reinforce troops on the front line. It’s especially useful in builds without conscripts and even when you have conscripts you can just soft retreat to the halftrack instead of retreating your conscripts to reinforce. It really does help you maintain map presence and pressure on your opponent. |
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