That was one way to approach it. The reason why I think mp40s make more sense is that storm mp40s behave similarly, but are stronger. Having them be stgs is a little jarring when they perform nothing like other stgs.
Of course there are already cases of weapons performing ENTIRELY different depending on which unit has them (volks stgs vs sturm, namely), but it's something I would personally like to avoid replicating.
I get that theres also the argument that stgs are historically strictly better than mp40s, and that they are therefore the weapon of elites - this much I agree with. But I don't see why storms have to thematically be super elites reliant on raw power as some others implied.
I think both ways have their benefits, its just that when you say X unit has A weapon, there isn't a whole lot of information there to go off of. Like pioneers also have MP40s but perform very different. It's just CoH2 being itself in the poor ways it conveys information, most infamously veterancy.
And just for the sake of more information you're unsure of, the LMG34 deals only 4 damage when wielded by non-elites, vs the 6 of elites. One of the few things I was able to get into former patches thanks to Mr. Smith. |
Pshreck counter Scott if you keep moving until you fire. But they are better to be used vs the Jackson who will need to backward and then give you the opportunity to reach the Scott.
For sure I'll go back playing USF, don't worry about that.
The problem here is that you make it personal, like I shouldn't be giving advise and strategies tips that don't fit your vision of the game. I mean, telling me L2P, seriously is this your last argument? I have to learn to play because I explain how to counter a specific strat and you don't like it thar way? What have you explained here, nothing, your opinion is there is no counter cuz Jackson. You are the one putting this unit on a level it doesn't belong like if 2 Pz4 couldn't counter it... Because there are snares like if the Ostheer player didn't had his own snare, own pak, own Stug and HMg42, long range Grenadier you can simply A-move late game so you're always at good range etc... to support a global assault.
Each faction has its pro and cons and I don't see the Ostheer faction being left behind at the moment. It's quite the opposite today. So respect each faction, respect the player and give advices so each one can forge his own strategy, there is no perfect solution and thanks for that, how boring it would be if you could just dive with your panther and don't care about snare and tank destroyers like in the old time. But maybe that's what you want with you constant focus on the Jackson, like many Axis Fanboy on the forum who are so imaginative when it comes to think a redesign for the Jackson on something that could just stand vs mediums or just stand vs super heavies but useless vs mediums.
The problem is you don't comprehend my posts, and then offer solutions that don't make sense, and then tell me I don't understand your post. How well does "Just keep moving until you fire" work for bazookas vs brumbar? Experienced players use attack ground for howitzers because you can make the shots more precise and predict movement. Furthermore, how the hell are you supposed to expect pschrecks to go through their full reload of 7.5 seconds while being both slower and lower range than a scott, AND have 100% accuracy for all 4 shots, AND go through smoke canister? If that is the best option to counter a scott then there is a problem with the unit, not "asymmetric design XD".
There is no perfect solution? There are loads of perfect solutions to this game, that's what a counter system is built on. Your opponet spams infantry? Solution is get an MG. Opponet has MG? Solution is get indirect. Honestly if you think I'm axis biased you should read my posts more instead of just looking at a playercard. Or better yet try and create counter arguements as to tell me what's wrong with my posts instead of saying
So much true that I wonder why USF isn't top1 pick during tournament. Hell their late game is completely OP by your description.
sarcastically. Which is literally what I did in reply to you in the previous post.
Like the entire post I'm replying to is just your own view of what my posts are which you think don't hold value because I tell you what's wrong with it. |
|
Alternativly they could just make them spawn with the StGs and just change the StG profile than making them MP40s.... |
Yeah, sure. 
Go ahead and say whatever you want, it is not going to make it more true or relevant for the topic.
Just about as relevent as you thinking my responses are out of nowhere when you think pschrecks counter scotts 
Go back to playing USF if you're not going to be helpful |
You should have your second pz4 the moment the Jackson hit the field and if you decided to tech T4, just stale until you get what you want/need
K well since you don't understand how pricing, dives or snares work, nor play anything besides USF. I'm just gonna go ahead and say you don't know how counters works in this game.  |
One Jackson isn't going to stop an armor push on itself. What the point here, to say "he has a Jackson, game over!". Jackson drawback is everywhere else: T1 or T2 for early support but not both until backtech. No meashield, there is no brumbar or panther to sponge damage and use armor to deflect shots. No Pzshreck that barely never bounce, no Pzwerfer to insta wipe support weapon crew etc... Not to mention Oshteer Commander aren't there to fulfill holes in your roster but to give you additional punch for your strategy.
I play enough USF to tell you 1 Jackson is nice to keep your enemy from walking over you but your opponent need to make serious mistakes to lose a piece of armor vs it. And yes, usually when the jackson hit the field mistakes are more often made but this has nothing to do with the unit.
1 jackson is completly enough to stop an armor push lol. You dive a jackson with a single panther or P4? I don't even know what to say vs that. Jackson shoots first because of range and has high mobility to reverse. Unless your opponet is braindead and just charges through snares and potential mines, or you're letting your jackson eat shots because you're inside his attack range that's a L2P issue there. |
|
I've lost twice recently to the LeFH from OKW because of T4 and OKW blobs etc. Not fun to play against at all, because once that cost of the LeFH is returned in manpower bleed on your base, or hits your ambo, you basically just get bled to death. You really do need a commander to deal with it unfortunatly, as the major can probably decrew the LeFH but I'm unsure if it will kill it. If you screw up as well with an armor push and lose that advantage from fuel it's also super hard to come back from. Not to mention all the other cheese crap that comes in OKW fortifiactions like bunker spam and S-mine spam from volks. |
Yeah but they gotta do something about the 76mm sherman man. Right now it's just such a horrible idea to go for this unit in teamgames (instead of just Jacksons + BAR spam) as you will get bullied so hard by Panthers, you even need to pray that the 76mm sherman can win a 1v1 vs OKW p4.
Can we get some testing with this ability? I am curious if a HVAP ammo sherman can stand even a small chance vs Panther, JP4 or OKW p4 despite the RoF penalty
Honestly they don't need to do anything with the 76 sherman except remove it. USF already have ultra potent characteristics that are overshadowed by a garbage tech system. Why would you go 76 sherman when you can just jackson spam which can beat most armor, BAR spam which beats most infantry. It's inferior to the HE sherman because HE shermans are very cost effective, and when in doubt call in the pershing to get some free wipes. USF overlap with the 76 sherman would've been a lot more straight forward if they didn't add it a few patches ago and just replaced it with the EZ8, which is also just a stronger 76 variant. |
What you say doesn't make sense for this topic, What the value of "The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions", the same argument can be made for every faction (minus UKF atm).
Scott need a lot of investment to be fielded and protected, you are actually arguing that 260*2+400 Manpower and 75*2+140 fuel is difficult to counter, yeah no shit Sherlock! Even more if we take the scenario of 2 jacksons covering 2 Scotts. But hey, that's also 34 Manpower or 48 in the second scenario, nothing to be seen here, 1/3 or 1/2 of the USF army is difficult to take out with a single Pzshreck or a panther or a Pz4, oooh that's so abnormal! hell, he may have mined as well! Let's not forget that on top of that he may have call…. a Pershing.
To the OP, solutions have been given: play aggressively, do not cluster your army in one spot and use your tanks with proper support to push from different angles.
Last but not least, Ostheer has a lot of good doctrines with different approach to support your strategy: Tiger, Elefant, Pack43, Scope, Smoke and the best of the best: Ju-87
The problem with the Scott is that it is too potent in certain synergetic situations. This means certain maps vs certain match Ups with certain unit compositions.
In general: long maps, shielded by either at guns or Jackson's and rifleman with double bars.
The Jackson has the same problematic synergistic aspect. On short and clustered maps, it doesn't shine and people call it a glass cannon. On long open maps, it dominates and tanks away at everything that resembles a vehicle. You can't dive it, since it is fast and shielded by double bar rifleman hordes etc.
This isn't a problem with the Scott, it is a problem of certain builds being so well supplemented by the Scott, that the Scott itself becomes too potent.
Changing this requires the change of the USF faction in a considerable way, since it doesn't have that much going for it at the moment...
This guy gets it ^
But as far as ""The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions", the same argument can be made for every faction (minus UKF atm)." That is entirely untrue because when other factions have this done to them through certain units, they have certain heavier drawbacks than that of the jackson. For exmaple the StuG range is its drawback. The JP4s lack of turret is its drawback. There is no massive drawback to getting more jacksons since they can tackle any armor and are highly mobile. If the drawback of getting only armor pieces that can only engage other armor, we let USF enjoy the freedom of not suffering from those drawbacks because of popcap abuse. A fun and unique mechanic!
I also said nothing about 2x scotts, others did. I can argue for only 1 scott and 1 jackson, which is still unsiegeable unless you have APCBC JT or something, or you pray your opponet screws up. |
Fact already disprove your post, 60/40 victory ratio in favor of Ostheer on last GCS2.
Scott are good indeed but they can be taken down by armor with a good push with combined forces. And 1 Jackson can't fight two tanks, remember 2 Scott means 1 tank less on USF army. And if the USF player overinvested on tank and Atgun to protect his Scott, use Pzshreck. Even if Scott are good they don't wipe squad like before and they aren't so good vs moving target. Now yes a lucky shot may force you to insta retreat a squad but that's a lucky shot, not the norme.
That's all.
Edit: I'm sorry if there isn't a unit I-wipe-Scott-for-breakfast on Ostheer roster so you can just say build that unit and you're fine.
My point was about the scott being difficult to counter. Not USF viability in 1v1. The problem isn't that Ostheer need "I build this, it counters your unit easily." The problem is a lot of the USF roster is so strong it does that to other factions. The biggest offender is probably the jackson and pershing.
Scotts don't need "lucky shots". Use them like brumbars and bulldozers, attack ground and the shell goes where you want it, and the projectile is so fast it works very well.
But uh, if your best arguement to kill a scott is to try and charge a 60 range mobile howitzer with pschrecks in 1v1 then I think you should probably concede on that... |
United States
Relic Entertainment
