We'll see what comes of this in time I suppose, at the very least though this doesn't belong on the Strategy desk. I think the balance section would be better here.
/Moved to CoH2 balance |
Can it be balanced by making spearhand mode longer to quit like KV2 seige mode? So allies stock mediums could counter it if seizing an opportunity to flank it.
Or making it a vet3 ability?
Or reintroduce the skrits upgrade costing fuel this time? Of course, bringing the original price down.
It's too expensive for a KT. If go T2 and T4. Need about additional 400 mp for T3, together over 1000mp for a KT.
Maybe will be better if there's somthing in the between.
There are ways to make things balanced ofc, the problem is we're trying to to make a unit perform in certain situations with a supposid counter of flanks. Maps don't always allow for large scale flanks etc. See Trois-ponts or Redball. It's part of the major reason heavy TDs are near undefeatable on those maps.
Overall I think it's too much of a change for the games lifecycle for anyone on the balance team to go for it. It would require extensive testing of OKW lategame vs all opponets, and rebalancing of opponets units as well.
When it comes to balance suggestions, the simpler the better currently. It's hard enough to get them to change veterancy |
It would make OKWs lategame better, but not in the way that'd be healthy for balance. In 1v1 especially, the tank would nullify construction of allied stock mediums and essentially force a TD as their first piece just to avoid getting rolled by the high armor.
Similar to how the KV-1 functions now. It's ok in terms of damage, but is very difficult to kill if your opponet has just fielded a P4. I'd say probably no bueno. |
I think if it had reliable AA it'd be more or less fine. Maybe tweak its vet around a bit but it can still be decent in terms of AI. I don't think it needs to get any major changes. Should remove its minimum range though :/ |
I don't really agree at all. The KT has massive shock value. If my opponent ever builds a KT, I'd be incredibly shocked.
If he's losing, he basically spent all his resources on an elaborate and expensive white flag. If the game was tied, he basically threw the game away. If he was in the lead by a little, he basically threw the game away. If he was dominating so much that he could throw 760mp and 280fuel away, and was able to dominate the late game with only 74 pop cap, I'd have surrendered by that point anyway.
Hence, one would argue that the KT offers massive and unrivalled shock value, especially in 1v1 games.
gotmethere |
So what do you suggest? Putting FF up to 500mp 185fuel?
KT I wouldn't say is a RNG fest, if it is standing still you will gib 3 rifle models each round pretty reliably. IS-2 is really a lot worse in that department (until vet 2) but I wouldn't say that it's a bad tank either, IS-2 for example can shut down puma and P4 meta pretty well and still has a use.
Likewise KT can shut down vanilla churchills or other heavies while gibing inf, sure I could build a panther but then you're not getting the wipe or lock down potential. KT offers you than ability to wipe inf and AT guns while taking on big tanks, panther gives you decent mg damage up close but nothing compared to a KT vs inf.
It doesn't gib models consistantly, that's the problem. If it did it should currently be used since nothing was changed in its nerf other than scatter. It isn't though since it requires all techs and is expensive. It just doesn't have the shock value for that price.
Personally I'd rather give it pershing scatter and call it a day. TDs could crush it pre nerf and they crush it post nerf. People just didn't like how it insta gibbed full 5-6 man squads. They could've lowered the OHK radius and changed the AoE profile which would've been fine. They do a lot of heavy handed nerfs/buffs on the team and it isn't always neccesary. |
If 440mp and 155f (+lets say 150muni for tulips) isn't equal to deal with a heavy tank than what is? This is poor logic because I would say the FF is overpriced if anything, the jadpanzer for example can counter a Croc and is not only cheaper in cost but with better DPS and popcap too.
Correct! But the croc pays for that power while having the ability to engage both infantry and armor with its (yet I say terrible) main gun and flamethrower. Although it should be much better post commander patch. But the KT is tied for most expensive unit ingame but it's AI is as RNGfested as the IS2, and the AT is decent when someone decides to push the KT within its range. But if the AI is so inconsistant, why would I not just purchase a panther for reliable AT on a more mobile platform? |
Once a plane begins tracking it will follow a unit to any point on the map. All planes should be able to move over base sectors so long as the flares are dropped outside the base sectors. This is very prevalent on certain maps like Faymonville.
There shouldn't be any difference between the planes of different factions currently. |
I don't really think that an unsupported heavy tank being countered by a tank destroyer is a problem. That is how it is supposed to be.
I'd agree if the price gap wasn't major. The firefly at 440MP 155F is just over half the price of the KT, but entirely nullifies it in any way if the KT doesn't have those raks there. A unit which costs 55% of another should not be shutting the more expensive unit down completely. You should be using relativley equal resources to engage your opponet to gain equal footing.
ISU, AVRE, elefant, croc... all these units I would say are slow and need support in varying levels, in the case of ISU even more. So why should KT be any different?
Pershing is the only heavy that can zap around and nuke everything, but most people consider it OP. IS-2 has KT armour with decent mobility but if you give it the maingun of the KT I would say it would be OP for sure.
If there's an issue with KT I would say some of vet is a bit mediocre, spearhead for instance could use a small buff.
I'd agree that those units need support in varying levels, but thats the key, varying. The croc can operate against most targets once these commander buffs go through. It'll have a full damage main gun and a flamer to clear AT guns. 2x ISU was used in the qualifier tourney last weekend by Rutra and dzzara against Hans and DevM. Hans and DevM didn't have the Ele and essentially couldn't counter them. I remember one of those ISUs walking into 3x raks and simply just drove away because of bounces and the single shot it landed vs the 3 AT guns. People used to complain about how the KT could walk into 2x AT guns and just clear them, but somehow that was different.
Point is, if a KT has desiginated support it can somewhat work, if it doesn't then it's practically unusable. With many other heavies they can operate alone. Not really gonna talk about the Pershing, it's hilariously OP but receives no nerfs. |
I think one of the crutches the KT currently resides on it sitting ontop of a VP being bait for 2x cloaked raks to attack a TD. If OKW lost their cloaked raks (which they should for a normal AT gun) there isn't anything that would be able to deal with those 60 range TDs. The gun is too inconsistant now, the turret is slow, the tank itself is slow and requires too much support if a single TD shows up. You're designating at least 1 AT gun, possible volks and the KT to a single VP point. That's at least 45 immobile popcap and a ton of resources. If the rak isn't there the KT can just get shot at with no penalty. Often refered too as "vet sponges" previously, it is now similar to what the KV-1s were pre MG buff.
My point is, if a unit can get shutdown so easily without designated support there's a problem. |