How about decreasing its turret turn speed and giving it a spearhand mode like KT? Maybe could giving it a amour bonus to 280 or so that could effectively protect it from ATG, and it can push with raks covering its flank.
Will it make OKW late game better?
And P4J is actually a simplified P4 with low turret turn rates.
what if OKW p4 got spearhand mode?
3 Dec 2018, 17:50 PM
#1
Posts: 130
3 Dec 2018, 18:03 PM
#2
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...Maybe could giving it a amour bonus to 280 or so that could effectively protect it from ATG, ...
And P4J is actually a simplified P4 with low turret turn rates.
When it comes to armor OKW PzIV needs more rear armor since someone forgot to fix it when they removed the skirts upgrade.
3 Dec 2018, 18:07 PM
#3
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
It would make OKWs lategame better, but not in the way that'd be healthy for balance. In 1v1 especially, the tank would nullify construction of allied stock mediums and essentially force a TD as their first piece just to avoid getting rolled by the high armor.
Similar to how the KV-1 functions now. It's ok in terms of damage, but is very difficult to kill if your opponet has just fielded a P4. I'd say probably no bueno.
Similar to how the KV-1 functions now. It's ok in terms of damage, but is very difficult to kill if your opponet has just fielded a P4. I'd say probably no bueno.
4 Dec 2018, 02:16 AM
#4
Posts: 130
to avoid getting rolled by the high armor.
Can it be balanced by making spearhand mode longer to quit like KV2 seige mode? So allies stock mediums could counter it if seizing an opportunity to flank it.
Or making it a vet3 ability?
Or reintroduce the skrits upgrade costing fuel this time? Of course, bringing the original price down.
It's too expensive for a KT. If go T2 and T4. Need about additional 400 mp for T3, together over 1000mp for a KT.
Maybe will be better if there's somthing in the between.
4 Dec 2018, 02:31 AM
#5
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
But the question is why? When suggesting a change, you should probably explain why the change is necessary (or an improvement) in the first place.
4 Dec 2018, 03:02 AM
#6
Posts: 130
But the question is why? When suggesting a change, you should probably explain why the change is necessary (or an improvement) in the first place.
Thank u for ur reminder.
A spearhand p4 could fill the huge gap between p4 and KT. OKW lacks late game AI options compared with other factions, especially something could counter ATGs.
A spearhand p4 with low turn rate may also be more realistic, though it's not an issue anyway.
4 Dec 2018, 03:25 AM
#7
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
Thank u for ur reminder.
A spearhand p4 could fill the huge gap between p4 and KT. OKW lacks late game AI options compared with other factions.
A spearhand p4 with low turn rate may also be more realistic, though it's not an issue anyway.
I'm not sure I quite agree:
Ost do have the brummbar.
USF has HE shermans, but the okw p4 is about as good. OKW doesn't have an analogue of the m8 scott though.
Not sure what you would say soviets have.
UKF has the centaur? But I think the okw p4 is again about as good.
Anyway, besides that, I'd argue OKW's late game AI is supposed to be obers.
Edit: I think increasing the front armor and/or giving the p4 spearhead would not only create the problems that shadowlink mentioned, but would shift it more towards an assault tank when it's currently a generalist (like most of the tanks in most other factions).
4 Dec 2018, 04:27 AM
#8
Posts: 130
Not sure what you would say soviets
Call-ins, though it's somewhat unfair to compared with tech things, they are quite common in soviets.
And cheap kats are effective against AT and MG.
Anyway, besides that, I'd argue OKW's late game AI is supposed to be obers.
Obers are good but they are inf afterall. They could win most inf contact in open battle. But they are not that effective when against enemy defence supported by MG and AT. They are also easily countered by AI stuffs and abilities, propagandar barrage for example. They are not very reliable in late game.
Changing P4 to a assult tank may cause a lot of difference for sure. Just an idea about improving OKW late game when facing enemy defence with compelete fighting system.
OKW do have a complete units system, however, it's expensive in terms of MP to build all tech and units. Maybe something that could fill the gap when OKW is constructing its whole tech will help its late games
4 Dec 2018, 04:27 AM
#9
Posts: 130
Not sure what you would say soviets
Call-ins, though it's somewhat unfair to compared with tech things, they are quite common in soviets.
And cheap kats are effective against AT and MG.
Anyway, besides that, I'd argue OKW's late game AI is supposed to be obers.
Obers are good but they are inf afterall. They could win most inf contact in open battle. But they are not that effective when against enemy defence supported by MG and AT. They are also easily countered by AI stuffs and abilities, propagandar barrage for example. They are not very reliable in late game.
Changing P4 to a assult tank may cause a lot of difference for sure. Just an idea about improving OKW late game when facing enemy defence with compelete fighting system.
OKW do have a complete units system, however, it's expensive in terms of MP to build all tech and units. Maybe something that could fill the gap when OKW is constructing its whole tech will help its late games
4 Dec 2018, 04:39 AM
#10
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Can it be balanced by making spearhand mode longer to quit like KV2 seige mode? So allies stock mediums could counter it if seizing an opportunity to flank it.
Or making it a vet3 ability?
Or reintroduce the skrits upgrade costing fuel this time? Of course, bringing the original price down.
It's too expensive for a KT. If go T2 and T4. Need about additional 400 mp for T3, together over 1000mp for a KT.
Maybe will be better if there's somthing in the between.
There are ways to make things balanced ofc, the problem is we're trying to to make a unit perform in certain situations with a supposid counter of flanks. Maps don't always allow for large scale flanks etc. See Trois-ponts or Redball. It's part of the major reason heavy TDs are near undefeatable on those maps.
Overall I think it's too much of a change for the games lifecycle for anyone on the balance team to go for it. It would require extensive testing of OKW lategame vs all opponets, and rebalancing of opponets units as well.
When it comes to balance suggestions, the simpler the better currently. It's hard enough to get them to change veterancy
4 Dec 2018, 04:50 AM
#11
Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2
So it does seem like you want an assault tank after all, a line breaker of sorts. I'm not sure that's the kind of thing OKW really lacks or could stand to benefit from, especially since line breakers are hard to make work in coh2. Having something that can facetank an opponent's offensive line is usually overpowered unless it really lacks lethality (the KV), comes exceedingly late (churchill), or has a high cost (is2/kt).
4 Dec 2018, 14:39 PM
#12
Posts: 1740
As someone who currently plays Allies most of the time I am asking myself why the P4 needs even more buffs, especially in terms of armor.
I am personally struggling in the AT department when playing Allies.
Sov T1 - there is no counter to a P4 if your enemy is not retarted ( = eating sticky satchel charges).
USF - Probably the "best" faction in this case, AT gun is decent and Zooks are also nice. Snares available.
UKF - Besides having a nice AT gun, UKF does not have snares without commanders.
P4 is already a real pain in the ass (the same thing I had when I played mostly Axis and facing a T70).
I am personally struggling in the AT department when playing Allies.
Sov T1 - there is no counter to a P4 if your enemy is not retarted ( = eating sticky satchel charges).
USF - Probably the "best" faction in this case, AT gun is decent and Zooks are also nice. Snares available.
UKF - Besides having a nice AT gun, UKF does not have snares without commanders.
P4 is already a real pain in the ass (the same thing I had when I played mostly Axis and facing a T70).
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
7 Dec 2018, 06:56 AM
#13
Posts: 378
OKW's AI comes from infantry, they have the best in the game in obersoldaten.
7 Dec 2018, 07:32 AM
#14
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
I think making KT more viable overall would probably be way better than buffing the already good OKW P4. Reducing vet requirements and better turret traverse would be a good start.
8 Dec 2018, 11:27 AM
#15
Posts: 378
I think making KT more viable overall would probably be way better than buffing the already good OKW P4. Reducing vet requirements and better turret traverse would be a good start.
This.
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