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IS2 should be tuned keeping in mind the ISU152, as both units kinda overlap with eachother
Both are late game armored vehicles, low fire rate veterancy erasers. Despite their good damage, their rate of fire keeps their AT performance down. Their value on tank fights is the long range and penetration of the ISU 152 (mostly to finish off runers) and the tankiness of the IS2 (covering a bit hole in the faction)
IS2 role ingame its ,for the most part, a VP guardian, so its one of the few vehicles that should keep the capture ability at vet1. ISU can also punish infantry trying to capture a point.
So, if we are to tune up the IS2, maybe differentiate it a bit more from the ISU by making the IS2 better against armor?
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That would bring the old maximum meme back.
Maxim's death loop aparently can't be fixed due to poor coding on the part of Relic. That's one of the reasons they can't be reduced to 5 men crews to balance out some stats. |
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MAP: Alliance of defiance
Things go downhill really fast.
We end up fighting against 3 T34/85s really fast, but we managed to destroy them in a single decisive blow and allowed us to fight back.
I placed like 3 tellers but got detonated by lost rounds so they couldn't accomplish anything but killing a few infantry models.
I managed to steal a 120mm mortar which allowed us to have near constant vision over their positions. |
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Another exiting match as we climb up the ladders.
This time, against a top 133 and 96.
Intense fighting on both sides of the map. We were pushed to the brink of disaster at least 3 times but we managed to come back thanks to small adjustments and constant harassing of cutoffs and fuel.
Their vehicles were hard to kill thanks to panzer tactician and it wasn't until the end, when the ISU had left them with no infantry support that we managed to finish them off. |
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Me and sidaroth are climbing again.
This replay features agressive play on camping in the woods against top 200 players. Quite a lot of back and forth between the oponents. Also, maybe a bug.
SU - Mech Support
USF - Mechanized company
OKW - Overwatch (suprise)
OST - G43 (can't remember)
Highlights
- Soviet - USF allied composition
- Flamer engies trying to defuse mines (super weird, the obiously got killed)
- Agressive manouvers from all the players
One of the players forfeits the match after losing a key unit, which kinda ruins the last minutes of the match. |
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I'm having a lot of troubles dealing with light vehicles with my current penal build
Base CE > CE > T1 > Penal > M3 > Penal > Penal
Back teching is not always viable due to the manpower tax of maintaining expensive squads on the field (without RA bonuses) limits the chances of getting a Zis ASAP. Also the Zis can only stop vehicle plays but not finish the job due to its slow rate of fire.
T70s are always late against cheaper vehicles like the 222 or the flametrack
Su76s while being the best option due their awasome scaling, are also quite far away against the cheaper ostheer light vehicles.
The only adequate AT option I've found are guards as they just use manpower and the ammo for the Dp28 is always available. It doesn't slow your tech and can also fight infantry though they still have problems agains the flametrack (they need to stand still to fire the PTRS) and the flaktrack (Supression allows it to lower your firing rate, has smoke to cancel your button and its damage output its not a joke).
Mines are also usefull if you manage to rout the oponent and plant them agresively or to punish dives.
This however basicly locks me out of any doctrine without guards, which is quite limiting (and boring)
So, how you deal with light vehicles when going, lets say, shock troops doctrines? |
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The tech its quite cheap, the problem will be to muster the manpower to bring out the 360mp ATG. Normaly you will have 3 penals and maybe a guard unit by the time you need to tech up. That's taxing on manpower by both the bleed and the pop cost of the units.
Backteching also has an oportuninty cost: you won't be able to spend your fuel into light vehicles like the T70, which its one of the best vehicles in the soviet arsenal, or the Su76 which offers a lot more value than the Zis3 (has the same barrage ability, plus mobility and rate of fire) and vets SUPER FAST (erasing the damage gap between it and zis).
After T3, backteching into T2 its a lot more viable, specialy if you have a heavy on your doctrine, because your units now have vet that softens the bleed allowing you to float a bit of manpower as new units are tied to fuel costs. Support weapons, however, will have to deal with vetted units which means even less supression value (comparatively to a T2 start or a T1 into T2 BO) on your maxims and your mortars and atg, without vet, will be hampered by their low rate of fire.
Regarding guards and their doctrines, they don't have any problem per se, its just their combination of numerous high upkeep infantry squads with 28mp per model its taxing on your manpower. And its ok to be that way.
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Consider the following:
Penal builds trade combined arms for raw early game power. They don't have mortars to push you out of fortified positions, neither mgs to control blobs. Axis factions will always have the tools to combined arms. That's one thing you can use.
Light vehicle play give penal build trouble because how subpar ptrs penals are compared to actual AT units. You can actually chase damaged units into the base with 222s, luchs or flametracks. It forces soviets it into guard doctrines, which turns manpower into an issue if you are able to inflict cassualties. |
OKWs 5 levels of vet should not be compared to the 3 levels of other factions units; five levels of vet is supposed to be better than 3 levels of a comparable unit.
Actually, after okw's vet rework last year, you actually can (for the most part).
OKW units recieve their stat bonuses in the first 3 levels, while vet 4 and 5 are active or pasive abilities. I can't remember if their 3 levels are to be achieved at the same time as other factions or earlier. It's in the rationale of the balance patch so, we just have to find it |
That's why I think cons should act as super lite officers via oorah. If oorah makes the maxim function as a machine gun suddenly you have cons and maxims instead of just a wall of maxims. If they are supposed to be the prime support infantry let them support! If it's tied to munitions it's better to balance but also can have strong units like penals dialed back and cheapened with that in mind. Cons could and should be in every engagement, providing bodies and a few inaccurate rifle volleys but also inspiration.
I dig this. I dig this a lot |
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