So, in summary, you admit that emplacement spam is a losing strategy but you want it nerfed anyway so that you can noob stomp quicker?
Pretty much. It shouldn´t take 45 minutes of ridiculously boring gameplay to defeat a total noob, just because he set up a SimCity around the 5 minute mark. |
Redesign= simple solution to further nerf the Brits?
There would have to be some balancing obviously. For example allowing the emplacement to be scrapped, returning part of the resources to you(like 30-50%), like Withdraw and Refit. In return, you could only get 1 of each at the same time and they would be less powerful to compensate for the ability to "move" them. |
In other words, just give the brits a normal damn mortar? The problem with pits is that they have to be overpowered cuz they can't move, which is a huge deal for indirect fire. It's really vulnerable to infantry breakthroughs and counter fire by 2 or more mortars.
That would certainly be one good solution, yes. |
There could be some adjustments (brace should have a cost) but they are already almost never used in high level 1v1s, and losing an emplacement usually loses you the game.
If they are just straight nerfed they will disappear from the game, and personally I love me some asymmetry.
Lower the mp cost, add a small fuel cost, make it only one mortar. Maybe let the second mortar be crewable by a squad.
There is asymmetry, and then there is just a mechanic being retarded. I think this falls more into 2nd category. Diversity just for the sake of diversity is ultimately useless. I don´t know, but most changes that affected this game positively over the years had something to do with making units more like one another(for example making Volksgrenadiers more like Riflemen, or buffing the T-34/76 to have a chance against German armor), or just tweaking them a little bit to be more similar and consistent in their performance. And just so you know, vast majority of players DO NOT play high-level 1v1s. People, mainly in team games, have been suffering through this BS every single day. |
What? lol
I have seen many games where the mortar HT just got sniped back by the mortar emplacement(I know, you have to move it around, bla bla bla...), or just constantly forced away by either the emplacement itself, or the Counter-Battery Fire. In some ways, it is much more vulnerable than an actual mortar. It also costs decent amount of fuel for a mortar, which delays your tech even further. That is not very pleasant, if the enemy built the emplacement in a strategic position and PaKs die very easily to mortar spam. |
You hardly see high-level players spam emplacements, but 1-2 pits are hard to take out if supported properly. Any decent player will try to push back your mortar/leigs or go skill burst.
In mid-level tier, they are very annoying and not fun to play against; the key is pushing for the emplacement as soon as it's built in early game when there is little support for it (you opponent just sunk a lot of MP and unlikely to get an AT gun) so a fast Luchs or AT on it is very effective. Remember the best cure is prevention.
I know that, but what if you don´t see it? You are screwed and have to begin the annoying process of countering it(which is very boring and by no means reliable). Maybe I am old-fashioned, but being annoyed is not an emotion you should get after simply seeing an emplacement. Again, we are back to my original point. The prevention, or possible liquidation of the emplacement spam requires disproportionately high amount of micro compared to the emplacement spam itself. |
He was sat on your cut off with all this stuff, and you were unable to dislodge him to damage the emplacements for the entire game?
Have you got a replay of this infamous game? It's starting to sound a little like you need to step up your game.
It was a week ago, I don´t have it anymore. And as I said, I won in the end, as I usually do against emplacement spam. My point, and the point of this whole thread is to talk about the disproportionate power of the emplacements relative to the micro they require. I never said I was a great player, but I know enough not to upgrade my Tommies with nothing but PIATs and charge them into MGs in a mega blob, getting outflanked by Pgrens every single time without doing anything about it.. I sure was a much better player than that guy. What pissed me off was that such a cheese almost worked out for him. I didn´t play perfectly of course, I made mistakes. I only mentioned that game to demonstrate that it is often not so easy to just "go somewhere else" on a 1v1 map. It ultimately screws up the quality of matches where Brits are involved and makes the game both boring to watch and boring to play. It is like banning biting, hair pulling, groin shots and eyepokes in the UFC. They are part of actual fighting, but it will do no good to have them allowed in the ring. The emplacements are the same, the are a foul. The value you get is not balanced towards the micro you put in. That´s why they need to be changed IMO. |
+1
When I play brits I'd rather have mobile options instead of emplacements, and I go with the aec and commandos instead, but that means I have 0 indirect fire, which is really frustrating.
As far as ost goes, mortar halftrack is a very good option, especially with the incendiary round and is basically uncountetable without aec to dive it until they get a Cromwell. Double GrW also does it as long as the crew doesn't bunch up and you don't stick both the mortars right next to each other like a lot of noobs do. You can always just recrew with pios if they get wiped.
Okw can also make their own simcity with isgs and flakhq and sanic repair speed sturmpios
Against double mortar pit, it is pure RNG. The mortar pit might counter fire and hit the halftrack, killing it instantly. That is not a real counter. Especially since it costs fuel, too. |
Yes yes emplacements are stupid but they also suck ass compared to what you could do with those resources. I think they need a major, major rework, not just nerfing this or that. If he had two mortar pits and a forward assembly, he probably doesn't have much of an army, so just spread out and cap the edges (where fuel and stuff usually is anyway), making sure to avoid the vision that points give, and you can either build a howitzer in your base or a heavy tank to break his sim city.
I hate using emplacements and I wish they took some more skill, and were also a less all-in strategy, and more of a supporting element of the brits' army. However, nerfing them into the ground still doesn't make sense. They just need a major major rework.
Have you read the post? The mortar pits could reach every VP, both fuels and both munis. He had a pretty decent army. I guess that is what happens when you can just sit back and recruit more stuff. All he had to do was get vision and I was immediately hit by 2 mortar pits, not to mention he sat on my cut-off with that SimCity, so even if I wanted to cap the other fuel, it would be useless and I just would get wiped by a Bofors on retreat. Even if you avoid the vision from the point, he can just bombard it blindly, it costs nothing, and with 2 mortar pits, he will hit something eventually. Like I said, I beat him eventually, that is not the problem. The problem is that someone with this little skill, with only his one "strategy", could waste 50 minutes of my time by an incredibly boring gameplay, while he himself had to do almost nothing. THAT is what infuriates me about this bullshit! It ruins the quality of the game, not the balance per se. |
The drawback is you can't move the thing lol.
If you want to get rid of them, the only thing you can do is make a mobile variant of each.., (except mbe AT gun, which needs to have its pop adjusted).
Simply limiting them is not fair. The other player (if he has any brain whatsoever) will just move to the other side of the map until he counters them.
(also inb4 Donnie)
But that is the problem in 1v1. Maps are generally very small. If you build them in the center, where exactly can the enemy go to ignore them? "until he counters them" May I ask you how exactly can you counter a SimCity made of a Bofors, 2 Mortar Pits, Forward Assembly, AT gun, PIAT Sappers/IS and Vickers? I have actually encountered this with Ostheer on Angoville, about a week ago. He rushed straight for my cut-off by the haystacks, capped it and built a SimCity directly in the center of the map(and yes, mortar pits could reach almost the whole map). I beat him in the end, but only just, while his only tactic was charging blobs into MGs and hoping the Mortar Pits would clear out all the resistance. It didn´t matter where I went, I was always under constant bombardment, and whenever he wanted, he just unleashed his blob. The amount of squad wipes that I suffered without him using any tactics or micro is just cancerous. People SHOULD NOT get away with stuff like that. |
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