If you are charging your Volks at a medium tank you are throwing lots of man power away; unless you can guarantee a cripple then a kill it's a big gamble.
That is how it should be, a risky move since they aren't AT units. If you aim to cripple tanks it's better to use mines for OKW.
Probably the issue is that it isn't the same for the other factions since the P4 has terrible acc and the Panther can't really shoot inf very well. So they can more or less charge at you and cripple your medium tank with little punishment.
I said closing in, NOT charging in. There are differences, especially cover-usage is there in the "closing in".The thing is, when you're closing in, they'll start backing up and since Volks' faust have a shorter range, Allies medium can still lingering around for much longer, while you can't do that against Ostheer. Also, they only get that buff at either vet 3 or more, so LVs will still have its dominace (I mean, Grens and Osttruppen have better range and Conscript has Oorah, no one said that's bad or OP. So why not Volks got it too, they are at the back foot here) |
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I'm fine with them coming out with shorter-range faust since OKW have T0 AT guns to deal with LVs, but later on into the game, where medium tanks roll in and AT guns at this stage are needed and already on the fielded quite a while for all factions, the shorter-range panzerfaust Volks has kinda make them hard at closing in for a faust, compared to Grens/Osttruppen further range and Conscript who can Oorah to close the distance (I'm not sure about Rifleman's AT grenade range though since I can't find that file on stat.coh2.hu ). Maybe at vet 3 or so on, they can get an increase faust range by 50% (from 20 to 30, same as Grenadiers and Osttruppen) since "Oorah" kinda is a Russian thing, don't know Volk would fit it. |
Pz.IV is not good at crushing infantries, they say? Well, this one proved the otherwise  |
Do you not use Luftwaffe? Imo it's more useful than Spec Ops most times simply for the Fallschirmjagers. My loadout is Scavenge, Spec Ops, Luftwaffe and statistically speaking I use Scavenge >>>>> Luftwaffe > Spec Ops.
When playing OKW, I tend to pick commander that don't have Elite infantry call-ins (Except for Breakthrough since I put him in to be able to get Panzerfusilier if my Volks got wiped too often) so I can focus on a more valuable non call-in unit: Obers (Yeah, how noble of me to try not to follow call-in meta  ... Probably that's why i'm at lower rank with OKW, not with Wehr though since I used a lot of Stormtroopers). Luftwaffe is good with the recon, Falls (But I don't want to use them, I would rather go Obers) and Valiant Assault; the Field Defense is meh, while the 250 MU drop thing is just a waste in my opinion, rather get 8 mines than use it. And consider that I love getting Obers, Spec Ops would be a better choice for me since they can get StGs, while Scavenge doesn't give them many benefits. |
People would place down their med truck then instantly build another just for obers if they were worth it. Which I believe they would be, but then that truck would just sit there draining your manpower income and take away some fuel.
I think that would be quite a trade-off: Be able to get Elite Infantry early but have to get slightly lower overall income. And also, I don't think a truck would drain that much MP and fuel income, actually.
Also, about the veterancy, yeah, they should change that, I think. Panzergrens' veterancy gonna get change in the upcoming patch. Maybe give Obers the receive accuracy buff one at vet 1? Or split the Vet 2 buff in half and give half to Vet 1, I guess? |
Off-topic: Not sure what game mode you are referring to, but I'm pretty sure Scavenge is the meta right now, by a wide margin.
I'm talking about 1v1, and yes, Scavenge is also very much meta, but recently, I saw quite a lot went Spec Ops for the Command Panther while they went both Med and Mech (No Schwere rush) or they did went Schwere but still call out Command Panther first. Scavenge is more of a clutch commander, consider the Ostwind can help you get back in terms of infantry warfare. Basically, Scavenge and Spec Ops are the meta right now. |
Yes the suppression still works even when not upgraded.
Hehe...That's kinda funny. Like, how do they suppress the enemy? The scream of Terror?
Also, about them coming out rather late (I understand your point. They're quite rough to vet up at time), just an idea:
- What if you can also buy them in the Base HQ (Or Med HQ), but to do so, you need a second truck out (The first one must already been set-up while the second one doesn't have to yet). However, you can't upgrade them unless the Schwere is set-up. That way, Obers will be quite similar to Wehr's unupgraded Stormtroopers, but you can only give them better gun (lmg34/Infrared StGs) when you got the Schwere. |
Reasons behind Obers not being used frequently is the large investment of 400 manpower and they come quite late.
You can always rush them, actually (Medic HQ then immediately go Schwere). I usually get them by the time Riflemans/Penals/Guards is still around Vet 1 or 2 so they are still very potent! But I do agree they cost a little bit too much. If they're just 20/30MP less then no one would even ignored them, but still, they're good, 400MP might seems much, but I think it worth it.
In addition the 4 man squad is significantly easier to wipe than larger squads like fusiliers or volks because of the smaller squad size. It's simply to easy to get unlucky or make a missplay and lose those 4 men to a mortar shell or the blast radius of a pershing shell.
Same thing can be said about Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers (4-man squad). Consider the fact that Obers come out with literally the smallest target size (0.7) and they gonna have better squad spacing in the WBP, they gonna defeat any long range units and charging-in CQC units that the Allies can throw at you while less getting wiped by random shells. So yeah, I still keep my point: Obersoldatens are great! And you should alway get at least 1 of them.
When fighting against Shocks/rangers/commandos its more of who drops models first lowering their DPS. MG34 Obers obviously win at long range vs all of those squads but 90% of the DPS on IR StGs obers come from the 2 models holding the IR StGs. Obers should win decisivly against shock troops, win at long vs tommy rangers and lose up close. commandos will trade effectivly with obers as long as they can get in close before they lose to much HP. Once obers get vet though commandos veterancy is pretty bad and they'll start losing even in CQC. Vet 3 rangers are the best bet to go toe to toe with vetted Obers, however once Obers begin to suppress at vet 4, if the suppression comes through you've lost the engagement most likely.
So there's 1 thing I want to ask:
- The "passive suppression" applies to Ober at vet 4, does it work with unupgraded Obers as well or the Ober squad has to have lmg34 for the suppression to work?
Beside that, I might give Infrared StGs a go. Might be on maps like Kholodny Ferma (The one with the wooden church in the middle) or urban ones. |
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Since Special Operations Doctrine is basically the most used commander by OKW players (Basically the meta itself), I have 1 question: How good is the Infrared StGs on Obers?
Firstly, I normally don't see anyone go Obers at all (Why!?). It's kinda strange for such a powerful Elite infantry, yet getting ignored by even some pro players. Secondly, if I ever saw someone go Obers, they normally seems to not get the StGs but rather just get the lmg34. Like, I know the lmg34 on Obers is extremely powerful (It drop Shocks models like flies at medium to long range), but what about the Infrared StGs? According to stat.coh2.hu, It has better close-range damage, but is it enough to fight on Shocks or Rangers or Commandos reliably? |
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Actually, I take back what I said about "proving off-meta commanders are good". They can be good, but if everyone go meta then it's very difficult to pull it off (Consider the fact i'm not the greatest player around). So, my loadout now is Scavenge, Breakthrough and Overwatch. Is it good (meta-wise)? |
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