Obersoldatens: Lmg34 or Infrared StGs?

Since Special Operations Doctrine is basically the most used commander by OKW players (Basically the meta itself), I have 1 question: How good is the Infrared StGs on Obers? 
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Firstly, I normally don't see anyone go Obers at all (Why!?). It's kinda strange for such a powerful Elite infantry, yet getting ignored by even some pro players. Secondly, if I ever saw someone go Obers, they normally seems to not get the StGs but rather just get the lmg34. Like, I know the lmg34 on Obers is extremely powerful (It drop Shocks models like flies at medium to long range), but what about the Infrared StGs? According to stat.coh2.hu, It has better close-range damage, but is it enough to fight on Shocks or Rangers or Commandos reliably?‎

Cuz if u upgrade IR STG44 early ... they will figure it out u will pick spec ops doctrine Kappa .
If you did not care about this STGs is a great choice . It has a high chance to ignore units in cover (75% maybe ?).

IR StGs ignore 90% of the cover the unit is in if it is in cover and they have higher DPS curve the closer the unit is to the obers.

The MG34 has higher DPS than the IR StGs at long range and can fire on the move.

Deciding which to upgrade with is more or less map dependant. If you're playing on a long open map with less cover choose the MG34, if you're playing on a heavy cover map with garrisons and a lot of wreckage I'd select the IR StGs. Also do remember that you can drop the MG34 if the Ober squad dies. You cannot do this with the IR StGs.

Reasons behind Obers not being used frequently is the large investment of 400 manpower and they come quite late. It's quite hard to vet up your obers when you're fighting up against vet 3 guards with DP28s and vet 3 rifles with 2x BARs. In addition the 4 man squad is significantly easier to wipe than larger squads like fusiliers or volks because of the smaller squad size. It's simply to easy to get unlucky or make a missplay and lose those 4 men to a mortar shell or the blast radius of a pershing shell.

When fighting against Shocks/rangers/commandos its more of who drops models first lowering their DPS. MG34 Obers obviously win at long range vs all of those squads but 90% of the DPS on IR StGs obers come from the 2 models holding the IR StGs. Obers should win decisivly against shock troops, win at long vs tommy rangers and lose up close. commandos will trade effectivly with obers as long as they can get in close before they lose to much HP. Once obers get vet though commandos veterancy is pretty bad and they'll start losing even in CQC. Vet 3 rangers are the best bet to go toe to toe with vetted Obers, however once Obers begin to suppress at vet 4, if the suppression comes through you've lost the engagement most likely.

Reasons behind Obers not being used frequently is the large investment of 400 manpower and they come quite late.

You can always rush them, actually (Medic HQ then immediately go Schwere)‎. I usually get them by the time Riflemans/Penals/Guards is still around Vet 1 or 2 so they are still very potent! But I do agree they cost a little bit too much. If they're just 20/30MP less then no one would even ignored them, but still, they're good, 400MP might seems much, but I think it worth it.

In addition the 4 man squad is significantly easier to wipe than larger squads like fusiliers or volks because of the smaller squad size. It's simply to easy to get unlucky or make a missplay and lose those 4 men to a mortar shell or the blast radius of a pershing shell.

Same thing can be said about Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers (4-man squad). Consider the fact that Obers come out with literally the smallest target size (0.7) and they gonna have better squad spacing in the WBP, they gonna defeat any long range units and charging-in CQC units that the Allies can throw at you while less getting wiped by random shells. So yeah, I still keep my point: Obersoldatens are great! And you should alway get at least 1 of them.‎
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When fighting against Shocks/rangers/commandos its more of who drops models first lowering their DPS. MG34 Obers obviously win at long range vs all of those squads but 90% of the DPS on IR StGs obers come from the 2 models holding the IR StGs. Obers should win decisivly against shock troops, win at long vs tommy rangers and lose up close. commandos will trade effectivly with obers as long as they can get in close before they lose to much HP. Once obers get vet though commandos veterancy is pretty bad and they'll start losing even in CQC. Vet 3 rangers are the best bet to go toe to toe with vetted Obers, however once Obers begin to suppress at vet 4, if the suppression comes through you've lost the engagement most likely.

So there's 1 thing I want to ask:
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- The "passive suppression" applies to Ober at vet 4, does it work with unupgraded Obers as well or the Ober squad has to have lmg34 for the suppression to work?

Beside that, I might give Infrared StGs a go. Might be on maps like Kholodny Ferma (The one with the wooden church in the middle) or urban ones.‎

what? People are spamming obers all the time, including me. They are way too good to not use.

Especially for the booby trap. Keep them away from medium tanks and rocket arty and you are good.

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Personally I don't think they cost to much at all. They just come so late that when they arrive at vet 0 vs vet 2 guards they just can't trade effective enough. Especially if the manpower isn't even traded and is lost to things like indirect or tank rounds.

Squad spacing is improved while on the move and in the open yes but it's still a nightmare incover. All it takes is 1 lucky clumped mortar or pershing shot and your 400 MP squad and probably munitions upgraded from the gun are gone. Even worse if they drop the MG34.

Yes the suppression still works even when not upgraded.

Yes the suppression still works even when not upgraded.

Hehe...That's kinda funny. Like, how do they suppress the enemy? The scream of Terror?

Also, about them coming out rather late (I understand your point. They're quite rough to vet up at time), just an idea:

- What if you can also buy them in the Base HQ (Or Med HQ), but to do so, you need a second truck out (The first one must already been set-up while the second one doesn't have to yet). However, you can't upgrade them unless the Schwere is set-up. That way, Obers will be quite similar to Wehr's unupgraded Stormtroopers, but you can only give them better gun (lmg34/Infrared StGs) when you got the Schwere.‎

Since Special Operations Doctrine is basically the most used commander by OKW players (Basically the meta itself)‎

Off-topic: Not sure what game mode you are referring to, but I'm pretty sure Scavenge is the meta right now, by a wide margin.

- What if you can also buy them in the Base HQ (Or Med HQ), but to do so, you need a second truck out (The first one must already been set-up while the second one doesn't have to yet). However, you can't upgrade them unless the Schwere is set-up. That way, Obers will be quite similar to Wehr's unupgraded Stormtroopers, but you can only give them better gun (lmg34/Infrared StGs) when you got the Schwere.‎

The not being able to upgrade them prior to schwer is a pretty good idea. The 2nd truck to construct just the Obers though would be unnecessary. People would place down their med truck then instantly build another just for obers if they were worth it. Which I believe they would be, but then that truck would just sit there draining your manpower income and take away some fuel. One of the largest problems with the Obersoldaten having a tough time vetting is that the vet system isn't linear in effectivness when a squad vets up. Vet 1 is usually some ability and then once you hit vet 2 you get these massive vet bonuses, making the vet 1 to vet 2 effectiveness a huge gap. Vet 2 Obers especially have one of the strongest vet 2 bonuses in the game. 40% accuracy bonus and a 25% weapon cooldown bonus, those are terrifying with the MG34. Obviously this could be fixed if the veterancy was more spaced out.

Off-topic: Not sure what game mode you are referring to, but I'm pretty sure Scavenge is the meta right now, by a wide margin.

I'm talking about 1v1, and yes, Scavenge is also very much meta, but recently, I saw quite a lot went Spec Ops for the Command Panther while they went both Med and Mech (No Schwere rush) or they did went Schwere but still call out Command Panther first. Scavenge is more of a clutch commander, consider the Ostwind can help you get back in terms of infantry warfare. Basically, Scavenge and Spec Ops are the meta right now.‎

People would place down their med truck then instantly build another just for obers if they were worth it. Which I believe they would be, but then that truck would just sit there draining your manpower income and take away some fuel.

I think that would be quite a trade-off: Be able to get Elite Infantry early but have to get slightly lower overall income. And also, I don't think a truck would drain that much MP and fuel income, actually. 

Also, about the veterancy, yeah, they should change that, I think. Panzergrens' veterancy gonna get change in the upcoming patch. Maybe give Obers the receive accuracy buff one at vet 1? Or split the Vet 2 buff in half and give half to Vet 1, I guess?‎

I think that would be quite a trade-off: Be able to get Elite Infantry early but have to get slightly lower overall income. And also, I don't think a truck would drain that much MP and fuel income, actually. 

Also, about the veterancy, yeah, they should change that, I think. Panzergrens' veterancy gonna get change in the upcoming patch. Maybe give Obers the receive accuracy buff one at vet 1? Or split the Vet 2 buff in half and give half to Vet 1, I guess?‎

Might be to punishing for the infantry then. You'd have reduced manpower income, it costs fuel AND you can't upgrade the obers with an upgrade. Plus they'd still have the problem of being a 4 man squad and getting wiped by AoE blasts. Yes the truck doesn't drain THAT much income and costs only 15 fuel but when situations arise those resources suddenly become a lot more important. As for the veterancy, as long as it was linear and balanced I wouldn't care what they got at vet 1.

I'm talking about 1v1, and yes, Scavenge is also very much meta, but recently, I saw quite a lot went Spec Ops for the Command Panther while they went both Med and Mech (No Schwere rush) or they did went Schwere but still call out Command Panther first. Scavenge is more of a clutch commander, consider the Ostwind can help you get back in terms of infantry warfare. Basically, Scavenge and Spec Ops are the meta right now.‎

Do you not use Luftwaffe? Imo it's more useful than Spec Ops most times simply for the Fallschirmjagers. My loadout is Scavenge, Spec Ops, Luftwaffe and statistically speaking I use Scavenge >>>>> Luftwaffe > Spec Ops.

Do you not use Luftwaffe? Imo it's more useful than Spec Ops most times simply for the Fallschirmjagers. My loadout is Scavenge, Spec Ops, Luftwaffe and statistically speaking I use Scavenge >>>>> Luftwaffe > Spec Ops.

When playing OKW, I tend to pick commander that don't have Elite infantry call-ins (Except for Breakthrough since I put him in to be able to get Panzerfusilier if my Volks got wiped too often) so I can focus on a more valuable non call-in unit: Obers (Yeah, how noble of me to try not to follow call-in meta ... Probably that's why i'm at lower rank with OKW, not with Wehr though since I used a lot of Stormtroopers). Luftwaffe is good with the recon, Falls (But I don't want to use them, I would rather go Obers) and Valiant Assault; the Field Defense is meh, while the 250 MU drop thing is just a waste in my opinion, rather get 8 mines than use it. And consider that I love getting Obers, Spec Ops would be a better choice for me since they can get StGs, while Scavenge doesn't give them many benefits.‎

When playing OKW, I tend to pick commander that don't have Elite infantry call-ins‎

I'm the opposite lol. I crutch so much on them they should call me Phil Call-ins.