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It's easier to deal with as OKW, due to their incredible early game prowess and a more durable anti-infantry light vehicle (Luchs).
Here's the early build order:
-Kubel
-Kubel
-Volks
-Volks
-Volks
-Mech HQ
-MG34
-Luchs
-Luchs
-Raketen
-Raketen
As Ethereal stated, rush their cutoff or fuel point with Sturms followed by Kubel. Second Kubel goes to cap your own territory, while follow-up Volks head to back-cap, then towards the enemy fuel.
Have your two Kubels work together, as a light patrol force, inflicting MP bleed and capping all over the place. Double Kubel can win a fight against an M3 Scout Car, it's fine if you lose one Kubel (or two) if you kill the Scout Car.
Then you build a Mechanized Regiment HQ, get out an MG34 to further solidify your position. Build two Luchs; these light tanks will force your opponent (if he hasn't already) to upgrade his Penals with PTRS, limiting him in the AI department. Constantly kite with them, displace DshK MGs, and inflict MP bleed with your StG Volks and Sturms in support. Spec Ops or Scavenge is decent as well because Infiltration Grenades are strong against MGs.
Around the time of your second Luchs get a Raketen, or two if you're quite far ahead. Keep your Raketen in the backline, ready to support. Your opponent will send his T-70 or M4C to deal with your Luchs light tanks, and when he does, bring up the Raketens, raketen shot+faust will spell death for it.
Alternatively you can play more conservatively, and opt for an earlier Schwerer Panzer HQ, getting two Jagdpanzer IV L/70s. Use them as you would StuGs, except that they have longer range and fire more slowly. |
Don't forget about +20% sight with g43 for PG.
That is true, however +20% sight still does not make them a viable anti-infantry unit. It does improve their utility, but there are much more reliable recon units in the WM lineup, for instance the Sdkfz. 222. I would rather spend the munitions elsewhere, say for Panzerfausts or Bundled Grenades.
As for Hector's suggestion to upgrade PGs with G43s vs Penals, I would still save the munitions. PGs are already better than Penals, G43s only make that long-range engagement easier. |
By this do you mean that you usually avoid g43 altogether? do you have any exceptions to this rule? Are there any maps or factions where you deem it better to get g43s on some of your grens rather than the lmg42?
G43s on regular Grenadiers is completely viable, and is often used in aggressive WM strategies because G43s are very accurate on the move. Also they tend to be a better option than LMG 42s on urban maps like Caen.
ShadowLink addresses your original topic, which is upgrading Panzergrenadiers with G43s. In this situation, he advises you to skip them, and I am inclined to agree with him. G43s on Panzergrenadiers does nothing but make your PGrens more consistent at dealing damage. Also, in the 2x Panzershrek + 2x G43 scenario, they do not become a viable anti-infantry squad because you upgrade them with two G43s. |
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I'd say that the Guards nerf as too heavy-handed, thus they are not cost-effective anymore.
My solution? Revert PTRS damage vs Infantry to 27, revert received accuracy buffs applied through veterancy. In my opinion, the cost increase and the grenade nerf are enough to put Guards in the right spot. |
What about removing the conscript repair ability and replace it with "hit the dirt" or "rapid conscription"? That way you have to build more than one engineer (which removes the abundance of merge from conscripts). Russian conscripts repairing american made tanks sounds kind of um, uh... "romantic". Having three or four Sherman's out on the field without enough engineers to repair them would be a big problem that the player would have to deal with (and the opponent to seize on) during the match. I believe changing this one ability will fix the balance of this commander WITHOUT nerfing or removing its core strategy/idea. Thoughts?
Repairs are not a problem. If you saw Hector's "New Soviet Meta Analysis" players start by building 3 Combat Engineers (one to build Tier 1 to build Penals, the other two to cap and take control of vital garrisons).
If you replace this ability with Hit the Dirt, it would be even more useless. On the other hand. if you replaced this ability with Rapid Conscription, this commander would become truly overpowered. Lose Penal models during engagements for free Conscripts, which you can use to Merge, thus saving Manpower when reinforcing your units. With extra MP you can build Caches to get out even more M4Cs (and perhaps an extra few Combat Engineers).
In my opinion, this commander in the same place that Guard Motor was last meta. "Very strong". Not broken, just the new "cheese".
Personally I'd like to see a ballsy overhaul of all factions that gives each faction 6 commanders, each with 6 abilities, balanced in a way that they are all viable for 90% of the playerbase. |
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[Theoretical Counter]
Gentlefox taught me that Penals into DshK is very weak in the very early game. This is why you put as much pressure on his units as quickly as possible.
Best way of applying early pressure: Assault Grenadiers, or Osttruppen. Also, with Osttruppen you can outcap him as well. Take important garrisons, force him into unfavorable engagements. Well-microed Assault Grenadiers, or two Osttruppen squads beat a single Penal, and definitely win against CEs.
If you do not have access to these two commanders, or would rather not pick a commander so early into a game, go with a meta MG42- 3Gren build. A Sniper is useful AFTER your Grens to help them win engagements more decisively.
Get a Flamer HT as the first unit out of T2. This will force him into upgrading (at least) one squad with PTRS AT rifles, limiting them in the AI department. Constantly kite with your Flamer HT, use it to displace DshKs, force your opponent to exit garrisons, and support it with at least two infantry squads. If you wrestle enough map control from your opponent, you can go for a second Flamer HT--this will give his units even more pressure to get AT, and thus, strengthen you in the anti-infantry department.
Get a PaK gun around the time a T-70 might appear. If you successfully denied him of so much territory that he can't even tech, congratulations. You've already won, without a light vehicle he will lose map control (as long as you don't lose anything) and will be betting on his M4C call-ins to save the game.
Which is where your StuG III G come so in. Tech to T3, get two StuGs, put them on standby as a reaction force. When his M4C appears, blow it up immediately with your StuGs. It's okay if you lose one StuG to kill one M4C, as StuGs are easier to replace.
[End of Theoretical Counter]
If you need any more help, feel free to post a replay or ask me for a scrim. |
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Hey there,
It's hard to help you with such an abstract original post. As in, we don't know which map exactly is the Hurtgen Forest map. Also, we don't know how you focus on far right and mid.
Is it possible for you to post a replay for us?
Thanks! |
adamírcz mentioned a great way to deal with emplacements as OKW, which is double leIG 18. While rather inadequate when dealing with garrisoned units, they are quite effective against buildings. leIGs outrange the British (UKF) mortar emplacement, and two of them gives you a very decent rate of fire that allows you to slowly but surely bring down emplacements. Remember to protect them from infantry or vehicles diving at them to take them out, however.
As for heavy armor, 17-prds are designed to WRECK heavy armor, especially tanks like the Tiger and Tiger II. However, the Jagdtiger (available in the Breakthrough Doctrine at 14CP) is an exception, because it simply outranges all British emplacements (including the 17-prd) and deals a whopping 320 damage per shot. Using attack ground (hotkey A, grid hotkeys Q) at the emplacement's position is a handy way to deal with Bofors and 17-prd Emplacements. However, you MUST keep it supported, Raketenwerfers or other Tanks, plus Volksgrenadiers/Panzerfusiliers for their vehicle snare, or else your Jadgtiger will die to a swarm of enemy tanks. If the enemy comes at you with a Bazooka or PIAT blob, laugh while your supporting units kill them, because the Jadgtiger has insane frontal armor (remember to back up your Jadtiger, though!).
Also, HelpingHans made a nice video on how to deal with "SimCity": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkVxsYNab0s&t
Hope this helps! |
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Voice acting has always been pretty decent in this series.
My favorite lines:
(Obersoldaten)
"This war is over. We have far superior weapons, soldiers, and most important of all, me."
"Did you hear what happened when the Italians joined the war? They were going to send 5 divisions to deal with them! Then someone pointed out they're on our side. So instead they sent 20 divisions!"
(Tiger I)
"They must have big balls, or tiny brains or both! Heavy panzer under infantry attack!" |
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Yeah, Guards took too much of a hit and doctrinal Soviet Elite Infantry all feel pretty useless at the moment.
Rapid Conscription, on the other hand, is incredible. Reduces MP bleed, works great with any strategy involving Penals and Cons. |
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drachwal91
Relic Entertainment
