Profile of Finndeed

Cons 6 men are on a more packed formation than Grenadiers though, and they are being targeted by the OST mortar and the OST sniper.

4-man grenadiers will also be able to use a garrison much better than 6-men conscripts


Vet0 Cons will still struggle a lot vs vet0 Grenadiers. It's only after veterancy has taken effect (and after Conscripts have burned countless of MU doing oorah, and being bled quite a lot closing in) that they will reach Vet3; and then they deserve being equals.

That's because a 6-man Conscript squad, in the end still costs the same to reinforce as a 4-man Grenadier squad.


You can always buy a double-bar from your racks as USF on your Vet0 riflemen. You will be on the backfoot for sure; but your rifleman squad won't be completely useless.

If you throw a Vet0 live-version conscript in the fight, that squad is going to bleed you like crazy until it can have an effect.


Mosin nagant DPS curves won't change anything with respect to PPSH or PTRS changes. That's because those slot items will override Mosins.

The only thing that will change PPSH/PTRS performance is veterancy changes. With that, we ensure that every veterancy change we put in is taken out of the slot item (that was the main reason why PPSH accuracy was decreased).

By adding stuff that doesn't translate directly on the weapons at hand (e.g., reinforcement cost), it won't be easy to think of a compensating nerf to keep those upgrades at hand.

DPS curve is really the safest change we can do with respect to scaling.

I think it's worth trying to explore an avenue where not every mainline infantry gets access to upgrades and AT grenades. No matter how much we homogenise mainline infantry, faction doctrines have been designed with a different intent, and 2/3rds of Soviet infantry with elite infantry will face issues when Conscripts can finally hold the frontline and also perform an assault role.

The moment we give Conscripts weapon upgrades, is also probably the moment that Molotovs will have to be removed immediately (else its Rifle Company flamers v2.0), and that will give us a completely radically different design from what we started with.

The reason I think it's a good idea to look at DPS curves is because we've seen this work just fine for the Revamp mode.

Soviets have access to a sniper as well, and they mortar is far from bad. Not only that they have access to the scout car/clown car with is in essence the perfect MG hunter

Cons have much easier access to molo's now which can push not only grens but any unit out of a garrison/cover.

Indeed I am not saying dont improve their early game consistency (which amounts to a DPS increase in most circumstances) and maybe some very small increases to dps at vet 0 IF that is needed. I don't understand why cons 'deserve' to be good at vet 3? Ostruppen aren't and they are still useful.

However, you will be homogenising fighting ability rather than features, a different way to get to the same place.

Yeah, i dont want cons to have weapon upgrades (non-doc) either. You do run the risk of making cons good enough to play every role already. Cons dont need to be assault infantry to be used aggressively.

You can't really buy Conscripts back in the lategame if you lose them. They don't have upgrades to buy from Vet0, and they will still bleed a ton until they get to Vet3.

Apart from the DPS curve debacle that Cruzz pointed out, the major wins for conscripts in this patch is that they won't get completely bled dry at max range, and that they will hit harder at approaching troops, making them more valuable as a late-game defense unit.

The consistency gains will also make it so that replacement conscripts in the late-game will be able to stick out behind sandbags and do something.

The counter-problem is that they have way too much RA currently at Vet3, and you can't really gun down ppsh conscripts while they rush you. That's also fixed by shifting Conscript veterancy more into accuracy than received accuracy.

With the changes, vetted Conscripts become on-par with vetted upgraded infantry, and there's always a range where each squad can outbleed the other. Conscripts have the disadvantage that they don't have unique abilities that can cause wipes and so on; but they will be good attrition infantry.

After we've fixed the DPS curve for Conscripts, the only fix we'll have to do is adjust where the mid-range should be. (i.e., at what range should the enagagement flip from Conscripts losing to Conscripts winning)/

If i may be so bold;

Grens cost the same to build, but more to reinforce, they get the rifle nade and the faust, they also get the med kit and can build bunkers. They are a 4 man squad.

In Con-trast (sorry) Cost the same, less to reinforce, they get the molo and AT nade, they get merge (arguably better than the med kit) and they can build sandbags, while also getting 6 man squads.

At this point Grens and cons are somewhat on par, balanced but not the same. The difference comes from the MG42 which makes Grens better, but also costs 60 muni.

By making Cons compete pretty well vs Grens with an LMG you risk making grens just as useless in the late game as cons are now.

And that buying back cons late game being fruitless argument does run true, but for all factions as well. Vet 0 rifles are total trash vs vet 5 cons etc etc. Why should cons be different?

I worry that with doctrines that give manpower free Cons, or give cons PPSH's or PTRS's or simply by allowing a player to gain significant map control with cons alone, you reopen the can of worms we closed before; that of light vehicle rushs that leads OST players into picking mobile assault 90% of the time because they cant compete in the early game.

Hopefully you can fix the problem earlier, and i can play some more and see how it plays out, but preliminary thoughts of my are mostly that a simple dps/combat buff throws so many other balance points out of whack. A more creative solution may been a better option. Alternatively allow them to upgrade 3 or so SVT rifles at some point, so they have to pay muni to be good as well...

True. Im gonna have to wait and see how this plays out. Thanks mate

Np buddy

grens lose even vs medics...wtf

https://youtu.be/BzKNXUoTZs0?t=2043

That was just shit play...

Ok, can someone please explain the issue in one sentence like you would like to explain to an idiot, asking for a friend.

(Cons are now OP???)

The jury is still out, and its not as simple as cons being OP but also how a stronger conscript squad can amplify the faction as a whole into being too strong.