Just another game on Langresky. Brit player looked like to copy Paula or Hans IS with that half track build. Some decent back and forth with a few flanks. |
I have mixed feelings on the commander I choose. Found it rather MP heavy and risky with forgoing light vehicles against OST. Also, any suggestions to beat OST mortars with USF :b. There is some pretty great tank engagements that could've easily swung either way. |
Thanks for your work. Makes it far easier to keep with the new changes. |
Really need to have all the changes complied and updated and it is a chore going through each and every change log. Saying that I didn't notice the luchs increased build time and thought I share my reasons on why Luchs is so powerful before the changes to its build time. I'm not sure on the changes either but I don't know a clear solution either.
Issue is with Luchs is a combination of issues then the unit itself. OKW can rush a cut off and win early engagements with Sturmpioneers, Volks, and kubel and if allies do lose these engagements it is far more punishing simply due to the kubel quick capping which leads to large chunks of the map falling to OKW control compared to any other faction. This is further compounded by Volksgrenadiers building sandbags which makes them hard to shift unless you go some form of light fire support, have grenades, flamers, or try to flank around. All those options cost manpower, munitions, and/or fuel to counter these positions however doing so sets you back further from teching up to get AT options out on the field.
Given the fact early game no faction will have weapons upgrades OKW can use their early munitions for healing crates which prevent bleed on their part while the other player has to either forgo healing to try and rush counters out for luchs or slow down and purchase healing which aside from Brits, Soviets and USF have to stay and heal whilst OKW infantry can heal on the move and thus keep up map control while not being susceptible to bleed.
By the time the mech truck is built OKW now has MG34 to further control the map and make it even more difficult to assault positions. Thing is while Volksgrenadiers veterancy did indeed get nerf this won't matter for early game as Volksgreandiers veterancy one and two are unchanged and their stats are also unchanged as well. After all Volks are on relatively even footing with Rifles, Cons, and IS early game if used wisely. To add more onto Volks they can counter garrisons which means any position that is held by Allies can be nullified by a flame grenade.
By the time you can push off OKW from your side of the map they have enough fuel and map control to snowball into Luchs. This is compounded by Volksgrenadiers who don't need to tech for their upgrades and they can upgrade on the field meaning they can hold their ground at key points. USF have to tech weapon racks and upgrade Rifles to one BAR to be put on EVEN footing with Volks with STGs early game. Same with IS which need to tech for five men and/or weapon racks.
Yes Volksgrenadiers did get nerfed however they aren't any different from live version Volksgrenadiers early game with STGs and their veterancy 1 & 2. Late game isn't a issue if you force the enemy to lose early game.
Let's say you do manage to get out a Stuart, AEC, or T-70. CPT tier doesn't have MGs to lock down parts of the map nor help counter bleed with HMGs, Stuart has only moderate to decent AI power, AEC has piss poor AI capabilities, and T-70 is a fine unit just can't counter Luchs effectively due to it taking so long to kill.
Throw in OKW has Rakets and could even throw in a Puma which effectively counters any light vehicle meant to counter the Luchs.
OKW has a very strong early game which leads to snow balling into luchs which leads to closing the game.
Want to make clear that I'm not sure on a fix for this Luch issue as it is more of combination of units that lead to closing out the game then the Luchs itself. Might just need to revert the build time and see how it the patches goes with OKW changes. |
We've mostly tried single Brens, but upping Tommy veterancy to be on par with their cost. It worked balance-wise. However, after having played enough of it and against it, it frankly felt boring:
- You're going to upgrade your single Bren as quickly as possible; same as the enemy
- You're probably going to buy a PIAT to fill up the other slot, because what else can you buy
- Then, aesthetically, you have two squads (grens and tommies) fighting against each other with one LMG each
- There's no longer a risk component to dropping guns for the enemy; not when you're only carrying one slot item
- There's no longer a dimention where one side gets more cost-efficient upgrades, but capped to one, and the other side has worse cost efficient but a higher cap
Thus, if slot weapons are ever to be nerfed, it would be better if the individual slot items get their stats lowered, but also become cheaper (but not lower than 45-50, otherwise, again, it becomes trivial).
Has there been testing with slot weapons stats being lower but cost as well like you described? |
I know it is too late to change pack howie but are there any future changes planned for it? |
The M3 Half track is might be too powerful with healing crates. When you use a half track to reinforce on the field you give up healing thus being susceptible to bleed which is the trade off to keep up map control. By giving it healing crates along side USF ability to use smoke grenades to counter the main weakness which is being suppressed, you can keep up the pressure unlike any other faction. |
To be fair it is very strong against OST but against OKW less so. Can see the need for it against OST as Rifles with BARs are strong and with grenades can clear out paks and HMGs more quickly than Conscripts with smgs. |
Could be a fun change. It's like added cover control for USF and helps USF dislodge opponents. I think the best thing would be to make Rear Echelons perform poorly in combat, but have good special support abilities make up for it (Volley fire, that grenade launcher you mention, ect.) My only complaint is that if the mortar is removed, the pak howie needs buffs. I regret building that thing every time when I could of just had two mortars.
I'm quite shocked that the pack howie isn't getting any buffs. I bought it a few times against OKW and their liegs always out stripped it in kills simply due to how horrible its accuracy is and the high cool down the pack has for its barrages. I mean when you have a cheap, effective mortar for 240 mp what point is the pack howie especially since it can't retreat and is so damn expensive.
On RE's they are already a poor combat unit without weapon upgrades but I can see making them even slightly weaker with the buffed volley fire and if their RE rifle grenade was aim able and have a short cool down time for the need to remove units from buildings. This way it'd make them not be a unit you get for direct combat but for their utility and would be more complementary to Rifles. |
Thing was OKW was meant to where Volks was a weak unit but supposedly backed by a strong engineer unit with light vehicles supplementing them until their elite infantry and tanks could come onto the field.
Issue was with Volks and shrecks, Sturmpioneer not being as strong as they needed to be, and their light vehicles being weak (AA halftrack) or too late (Luchs in flak HQ).
Due to WFA tech structure, Volks & upgrades have to hold out against each of the following potential threats (both individually and as a combination of said threats):
- Penals, with de-facto mid-long-range good performance
- Tommies, with de-facto long-range performance
- Tommies & Brens
- Riflemen
- Riflemen & Bars
- Riflemen & LMG
- Conscripts
- Conscripts & PPSh
So, IMO, the only two upgrades that would work for that would be either:
- An LMG42 upgrade; in that case we also give OKW access to T0 weapons and effectively remove them from the game, because now they've become Ostheer
- The weird STG weapon curve they have which gives them certain ranges to perform vs the forementioned units for each matchup
I can't think of any curve that will work vs each of the forementioned threats, and I can't think of any combination of upgrades that would help Volks to fight.
If you think that forcing Volks to pick mp40 alone will solve anything, feel free to give it a whirl in DBP trying the firestorm doctrine. You can maybe use up to 1 squad of Volks max tactically, but upgrading all of your squads with mp40, or letting the rest of the squads unupgraded is suicide.
Sure, we could tweak the curves a bit if necessary, e.g., cost, to prevent snowballing, and fire-on-the-move performance to prevent blob-ability. However, volks need to have a role in the late-game which is ideally complementary to Obersoldaten, without turning OKW into Ostheer v2.0.
Has there been any tests with adjusting the BAR and Bren for them to be stronger individually but unable to upgrade to two? Of course up the cost to 80 or even 90 munitions. The point would be to be strong enough to beat down Volksgrenadiers as the only reason I upgrade to two BARs is when I'm playing against OKW and need the extra BAR to trade effectively against Volks but against OST it is a bit too strong. The stronger but limited to one BAR would still beat Volksgrenadiers and Grenadiers but not so strongly as dual BARs do now against OST.
This change would also encourage more elite troops from USF even though they aren't really used due to timing, CPs, and cost of the elite troops and upgrades needed for them. |