PTAB could get little buff to damage and make engine crit like regular snare. Right now it have the same damage to vehicle as Fragmentation bombing run for OST, while don't make any serious damage to infantry.
It would need to hit as fast as the "totally not OP" fragmentation bombing run to have any chance of hitting a tank. Right now, it's around 6 seconds slower. It does some damage to infantry but doesn't wipe anything so its okay in that regard. If it hit a little harder and did an engine crit it would be okay.
What is Captain could make an unit produce a unit instantly with a cooldown.
Cool idea?
I think you're on to something. Could the Captain also teleport it anywhere on the map? An infiltration Pershing would be enough to get me to play USF again.
IMO it is totally not op. I used cluster bombs example to illustrate that similar abilities exist and are cheaper. Those boms are supposed to kill. You have reaction time. Sometimes it is just better to move to the side rather than retreat. It is very similar to penalty shots in football. The goalkeeper must just just dive left or right and has a chance to save the goal if he is lucky. Same here if you predict that the opponent will retreat you draw a line of bombs on his retreat, butbifnyourbopponent moves left or right instead of retreating they won't die.
Yes, cluster bombs used to hit at around 5-6 seconds, which was considered OP. They were nerfed to around 8 seconds to impact. Your "totally not op" fragmentation bomb hits in about 2.5 seconds on a small map.
What would people think of this change: Instead of adding a delay, make it so the bombing run has to start from your base. That would probably add enough time on small maps that you would have a chance to react. Maybe compensate by making the AOE wider since you can't align it the way you normally would.
Most people wanted a T34/85 in the doctrine. It needs a lot of other changes. The PTAB is glacially slow to arrive (around 9 seconds) so it isn't worth it at any price. The howitzer is out of place. The camo wasn't implemented well and ends up being a net negative for SU85's if you use it. No Mark Target or Guards make it hard for Cons to do anything besides scare a medium tank.
Removing the Faust would be the obvious thing to do. Falls are still too good overall if you considering 2 CP, moderate price and insane DPS after upgrade. No reason a unit that good vs infantry should have Faust.
+1 I've really struggled against them as Soviet because none of my infantry stands up to them well and T34's or T70's often get fausted. The generous cloaking ability means they can ambush snipers it what looks to be open ground as long as there is some yellow cover from shell impacts. KV1's do much better against them but they're a lot of pop cap for something that rarely penetrates a Panther or heavy and bounces a lot against even a Brummbaer.
No this was after the patch around a year ago, there is no mention of any nerf afterwards in the patch just ctrl+f tank hunter or precision anti
I blame it on the spaghetti code as always
No, it was a ninja nerf that never made it to the patch notes. It can still take about 1/2 health of a heavy if it processes perfectly. It used to wipe infantry like crazy. The rest of the doctrine was changed and those changes made it into the patch notes but not the bombing run change. The doctrine used to have salvage which was replaced by the howitzer.
It used to wipe mediums. I don't remember if it would wipe a full health heavy but if not it would a almost full health heavy. The problem with it was probably more the speed because you had a hard time avoiding it on the edges of a map.
It needed a speed nerf because you couldn't get MG's out of buildings in time and it would take down most buildings. Instead it was nerfed into oblivion.
I'm going to make a video on this since effen wanted elchino too, and he said no. Check back later.
EDIT: Here you go!
So my take is basically, yeah they're slightly better than IL2 PTAB and precision bombing run. I'd say they're worse than M83 cluster mines and maybe could use another half second added to arrival time. M83s need the nerf first though, and really need it in the cost department. IL2 is 20 muni more and is great vs tanks as well so it is very much balanced if not slightly strong IMO. PTAB are honestly pathetic for their description and cost to power. I didn't test PTABs vs infantry, but if they're only good vs armor then they need a buff.
Thanks!
I tested it also before I saw your reply. I tested on a 2v2 map and came to a similar conclusion. I didn't use cheat mode but tested it with two computers. For the fragmentation bomb, you could avoid it in the center if you retreated on sound but not wait for the marker. On the edge of a map, even retreating on sound will cause the unit to take damage. The time to impact for fragmentation is 2-3 seconds from skill use on the edge and about an additional second in the center of a small map. Had I tested it on Steppes like Shadowlink did, it would've added another second or two. It's probably why I don't notice fragmentation a lot except when playing 2v2's. I think it needs a second or so added to the time. The difficulty in that is that would make it slow on large maps. The area is only about half the size of the cluster bombs. The damage it does on a successful hit is fine, not any different that most off-maps.
The butterfly bombs were about 8 seconds to impact. They will kill a lot more units if you don't notice, but it compensates by giving you a lot longer to dodge. I rarely get hit with those but occasionally see someone get hit at their Battlegroup HQ and lose a ton of models.
The PTAB will kill a few models but doesn't normally wipe squads or anything. I can post a replay of that if you want to see it but its over an hour. I tried it a bunch of different ways to see if there was some way that it wasn't pathetic, but after trying all different sorts of targeting, couldn't find a way that it wasn't pathetic. I tested it on Minsk pocket and was getting about 9 seconds from smoke to impact if the bombing runs went along the long axis of the map.
I noticed elchino is looking at this thread. If you have time, could you show how fast fragmentation hits versus IR pathfinder, IL2, and lastly PTAB using cheat mode?
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