What about this concept (outside of just adjusting AA and giving the 6th man back).
-Unit gets it's 6th model back.
-AA stats changed to be closer to 120mm mortar (RoF and Scatter nerfs).
-Barrage cd reduced
-Heat shells no longer gained on vet. Instead, after getting a major, Pack Howitzer can be upgraded to use this type of shells for barrage for X fuel cost.
-Number of shells increased to 5.
-Range increased to 160.
-After using HEAT, disables AA/normal barrage till cd is down.
After upgrade:
-Increase time to deploy. Same time to move away.
-Increases pop from 9 to 11 (old popcap). By comparison, Howitzers are 15pop.
-Re-arranged veterancy.
-Vet 1 remains the same. Vet2 gives 30% barrage recharge. Vet3 gives -20% scatter on barrage +2 shells on heat (similar to vet1 on SU Howitzer).
Will be fun on 1vs1 with a 160 range howitzer parked on my base and firing at my opponent base.
Give all barrages 5 shells, cut its cd in half and yeah nerf the AA as much as you want.
As I said before, the same dudes will come here to cry that the pakhowi is OP has hell because it burst everything down and more when it get its heat shells. |
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And then compare it with other howitzers stats.
USF already has a mortar (not that I wanted it) so what the point of having 2 stock mortars with pretty much the same stats? |
I'm pretty certain the M1 Pack Howitzer vet 2 HEAT barrage is instant detonation on impact. I think you may be confused with the M21 vet 2 Delayed Fuse barrage which has a similar function (but is way better lol)
Point stands on the other howitzers, however, which is why the agony over compensating barrage if removing autofire makes no sense to me.
Ah yes true, was using the ht lately which make me confuse. |
Then don't hang low health squads around while shells are landing nearby? "My change" is exactly what happened to ISU152 , 120mm mortar, brumbarr, and several other powerful AOE weapons
Also as I just pointed out the HEAT barrage is very capable of killing things. It does 80+ damage in just under a 2.5 radius or so
Idk why you keep saying it's barrage needs to be good. They are good. You have 3 types to choose from, all of which are useful
Heat barrage has a fuse time. I mean, you could have the exact same argument about the Lefh or Ml20 or Priest. the 3 units you mention are actually much more deadly vs low health squads and all of them have a much higher survivability rate in case of being attacked. |
The same way as before? I'm not saying remove auto-attack, just weaken it. Increase the reload time a little, and maybe decrease full health kill radius.
You could increase it's overall splash radius as well so that it still distributes good damage but doesn't kill full health squads as easily. They have done that with multiple AOE weapons
The pakhowi already doesn't OS any full life squad so your first paragraph is out of subject, what you're proposing then isn't going to make its detractors happiest since it will be subject to kill more wounded models per shot. Low health squads are going to suffer much more from your change.
Again the pak howi cost the same as an elite squad and is perfectly and easily counterable by any kind of combat units, so I don't know why it shouldn't have the same killing power as such. From this reasonable point of view: or effectively you want to make it a real howitzer on barrage only and thus give it the firepower associated to it or leave it on AA mode as it is today. On both cases you'll meet people unhappy about it and just want it to be nerfed to oblivion. |
Idk, it's pretty good now imo [...] if you are lucky.
Here we are. And no, nothing can be considerated as pretty good IF you are lucky. |
The Pak Howy happens to have 2 alternate barrages. The HEAT barrage and WP both of which are amazing, the regular one is still pretty good too
Also it's barrage range is 160. The 120mm mortar is the closest mortar at 100, the regular ones are 80. So saying it's not as good at barraging is completely false
So let me know how you're suppose to vet your pakhowi in order to use them with a nerfed AA mode.
Barrage range is 160 because its suppose to do the trick as a howitzer, instead of comparing it with mortars, do it with the Ml-20 or Lefh. You know... there is a reason why it is called pak howitzer and not pak mortar 
I know that people would just respond "then let's nerf/remove the AA and buff the barrage", yeah but I'm not sure they're going to like it either.
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Give it a 6 man crew back, increase reload time on auto-fire and maybe reduce full-health kill radius. The 5 man change didn't make sense, but weakening auto-fire certainly does. It already happened to most indirect units
Reducing the auto attack is just going to make the unit useless. Most indirect units you're comparing with have strong barrage meant to be used. PakHowi have strong AA and poor barrage, you simply can't compare them since they are completely opposed in their design. |
This is true also for the top 10%. You do not improve this effect by shrinking the player base you look at even further to the top 10%.
That why he trust more tournaments. |
I'm really not sure what you're arguing for or against, since your first post to this thread was what the stats are based on and so far you've not made an argument.
Also please elaborate why matchmaking for the 90% of the playerbase is so broken that you could not use the data based on it, as this argument does not make much sense to me.
There isn't enough people playing the game, matchmaking isn't proposing balanced matches due to lack of players available. Below elite playing ranks most of the game aren't balanced and the faction played has little impact on the game outcome.
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