All of those changes sound horrible. |
It seems the players are concerned about the Panther coming in too soon and pre-unlocked upgrades for the OKW. Also shrek blobs look to still be the norm for the majority of OKW armies. So what about a Tank Hunter Tactics unlock in the HQ which is available after the Schwer is built (something like 150-200 MP 40-50 fuel). Which unlocks Panther for purchase in Schwer and Panzershreks for Volks at 70 munis(since Relic seems completely against moving them to any other unit or making a dedicated AT squad). Volks would come with Flame Nade on purchase(they are still slightly worse Grens for 10MP more). But after the first or second truck is built they can unlock 3 MP40s or 2 Stg44s and Panzerfaust ability for 60-70 munis; this upgrade can not stack with the later Panzershrek upgrade. This would delay Panthers and Panzershreks, but Panzerfaust would still at least give Volks an early answer to fast light vehicles. I don't think having an AT weapon and AT snare on the same unit would be too bad, since Rifleman can do it much sooner than Volks would be able too.
As for Vet 4-5, really? People are complaining about the unobtainable Vet 4-5, especially after it just got a nerf? If anything Vet 4-5 is so unobtainable most OKW units need 10% Vet requirement reduction(and by most, I mean like every unit except Volks).
For call-in tanks... Command Panther is already pretty expensive and comes at late CPs (maybe increase it by one more if timing becomes an issue). Jagdtiger could see a 40-50 fuel increase since it was the only unit to really get a significant fuel decrease due to the resource penalty. The Flame Hetzer... needs something it stinks for what you get. 10-20 muni increase to G43 upgrade for Panzerfusiliers and I think the rest is fine. Most of the artillery call-ins still stink, the Flare being the only good one and it just gives LoS.
Obers come so late I don't think their upgrades really need any significant cost increase. Just an idea to balance them some more. |
My OKW name suggestion was Advanced Disruption Doctrine and the ones up there sound meh. |
Attack here and Defend here pings(for use with randoms, because the chat can be cluttered and is hard to notice in the heat of battle). This would IMMENSELY help matches as one of people's biggest complaints with matchmaking is how two randoms don't have nearly the amount of coordination as Arranged Teams.
This is probably way to late for this patch, but can this be added to a future patch? |
Still a very silly concept that allied TD's have Lower pen, lower armor, lower range and also don't kill inf. I guess the thought was mobility made up for all 4 of the later (M10 is unique to the scenario but not much longer) but mobility is countered by the fact the Elefant and Jagd only need basic spotting to start nailing your tanks on thier Rush in. The Jagd pen bulletin is adorable though.
I don't see how dedicated TDs, not having a way to deal with infantry is "silly" it is part of the reason they cost less than the Panther. The Jagdtiger penetration bulletin is the ultimate troll bulletin, I am sure some Relic dev put it in there for the lolz. |
Maybe reduce Jagdtiger and Elephant range to 65 and remove stun-lock on Jagdtiger whenever it gets hit, but up its fuel cost some to account for patch changes to OKW? That way it still outranges tanks, but not as badly for better counterplay and is in range of static ATGs.
I wouldn't mind them being cheaper but less good, to be honest.
I could also get behind this. Make them fat TDs without making them godly TDs like they are now. |
Also will you ever look at soveit light at gun in urban defence dotrine as well as HQ cost and tank spoting , when you are revamping commaders ?
And will you look at bad spot penals
Could use some love.
And soveit cover to cover sniper camo that is nonexisten ?
Yeah soviet sniper could use a little love somewhere.
And can you give g43 to stormtroopens ?
This would be nice in Elite troops(although people are still going to cry over loss of pay to vet).
Or decrease hetzer vet requirements ?
A lot of OKW units need a decrease in Vet requirements.
And give a look to liehtenaunt tier after all these changes go live ?
And buff AC to puma level becouse now british mid game is almost nonexistent due no counter to light vehicle except at gun. They also does not have AT nade. (with cost increase of course)
Could they include AT Nade from the AT Boys squad with Grenade upgrade package (and the AT Boys can spawn with it unlocked for free)? Right now there is no point in getting that grenade upgrade as getting 5th man and weapon racks is much better. This would allow more opening plays as usually only 2 of 3 infantry upgrades is worth delaying tanks for and this would allow for more options.
Thx for replay Brad , youre really great (today i was looking at begnining of year and we had call in meta nad shreckvols+ ober blobs into KT and PTRS spammers , game evolved really greatly from that THX for all).
Thanks a lot for your hard work Brad!
|
+1 for a positive non-rage thread(which will hopefully not divulge into fanboi war).
I really like the Wher Mortar HT's flame barrage as it acts similar to my favorite Soviet artillery: Incendiary Artillery Barrage. |
The volks buffs don't put them on the same level as Riflemen exactly, but it makes them play very similar. Previously when idiots built 3-4 volksgrenadiers they had a real hard time of it because it's a stupid build order. But now it's rewarded with more damage and more affordable panzerschrecks. (100% income, I realize the 70 muni cost was reverted) Add into that cheaper sturmpios and it's basically assault engineers + riflemen. The new kubel is probably okay in combat too, although better used to go cap stuff while your volk blob is fighting now. They also lost their early game suppression, which makes them more like America. Volks have regular grenades now though, to let them be used like riflemen. :|
Volks don't get any kind of AI weapon upgrade unlike USF, Brit, and Wher mainline infantry. Assault Engies are a doctrinal unit and several doctrines for every faction give them units to fill in gaps where they don't have units. So they really shouldn't count as being the same as Sturmpios which are non-doctrinal. USF don't have a capping unit like the Kubel so even more reason that OKW isn't some clone of USF.
Throw into that pot their new tech system which gives them a psuedo-lieutenant and psuedo-captain (choosing one of the two massively delays the other) that come around the same time as those do.
Lieutenant doesn't heal and Captain doesn't repair vehicles and they both can MOVE. They are vastly different than the trucks design.
The old design dominated early game if you actually used kubelwagons, multiple sturmpios etc. If you did the typical volk spam builds ofc you struggled early game. You're spamming an AT/utility unit like they are frontline infantry.
Watching several matches and from my own experiences this really wasn't a common strategy due to not being that good. It cut down on the amount of capping you could do and good Allied players would take that time to cap a lot more area.
It also had a way better tech structure, moving JP4 to t3 and luchs to t2 was stupid as hell. Those units existed to fulfill gaps that you would have if you went for certain tech paths. If you went T1 + T2, JP4 gave you a reliable counter to medium or heavy tanks. If you went T1 + T3 the luchs provided you with a light vehicle. (Although personally T2 + T3 is where its at) Now they have a what may as well be linear teching structure.
Their tech structure has ALWAYS been the same as USF. You can go T1 or T2 which are needed for T3 or you can go all 3 Tiers. Their tech line has solidly been T1 for several patches now(since ISG super buff). Players felt that the JP4 was coming too early and that the Luchs was coming too late, therefore the switch. Many strategies cna still be used, playing without the healing truck is tough and I think Allies can abuse that to wipe some squads.
I just don't think they needed to be hit by a huge freight train of changes. Especially when those changes just make them play like other factions. They had a unique identity and some fun teching strategies and now they have a pretty boring tech tree. They're also blatantly overpowered now, and will be for months.
The patch isn't finalized so "OKW will be OP for months" holds no water. The meta will take several months to settle and people will bitch and moan about this and that being broken, but players will adapt and after 2-3 months if their really is that single OP strategy/unit the next patch should be ready to fix it. OKW still have a unique identity, no faction has movable tech buildings hat give bonuses on the field, no faction has a capping light vehicle, no faction has a heavy like the King Tiger non-doctrinally(maybe the Churchill). There are going to be certain similarities to design to every faction, it is impossible to balance 5 factions and keep every one of them completely unique. Strategies will always be viable depending on the player's skill. Less skilled players will always use whatever one of the higher ranked player's uses to win a tourney. It happens in every game, there will always be a few units/tactics superior to others and you use those if you want to win more easily. There are always the less powerful units/tactics which can be used for more fun, but are harder to win with.
|
No homogenization is making similar units all come out at the exact same time for the exact same cost and turning OKW into USF 2.0 like this patch does. (Only with a better late game.)
USF doesn't tech through placeable trucks and can build caches. Their mainline infantry are vastly superior at AI to Volks. I don't see how the faction is USF 2.0. People are calling this faction Wher 2.0, USF 2.0... this faction's identity was bad and hard to blanace so yes it had to change. Anyone remember that chart Relic put out a few months ago (right before the Brits released) that gave what time certain factions were supposed to be better than other factions. Well OKW and USF were both supposed to be the early game factions, although USF ended up being the only early game dominate faction(I remember the lols from people over how bad Relic understood their own factions). Yes this redo improves OKW's early game, but that doesn't make them a clone of USF. If anything Brits are the closest to a direct faction clone(clone of Wher) and I don't see people having nearly as much of a hissy fit about that as they are for OKW's redesign.
I do still think the redeisng needs some work like late game vehicles' costs need to be increased, but I don't think upping the cost of Schwer truck would be good due to it making Obers come too late for the cost. Since we are in a mod of patch phase why not try out Sturms with Shreks and AI package for Volks? Also Vet requirements could still be lowered by like 10% on most OKW units due to how ridiculous it is to even get Vet 3 with most of them. |